Trains.com

Is China buiding railways in Africa a new form of collnialism?

4518 views
23 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 1,568 posts
Is China buiding railways in Africa a new form of collnialism?
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 10:24 PM

The Chi-Coms are muscling in in Africa building new railways and establishing a miltary presence filling a power vacume left by the west and russia. When the average man on the street income in many of these countrys is less the 1000.00 USD a year one wonders how will these trains pay for themselves. China is calling its project  "One belt One Road Initiative" to establish transport and trade domination over the Indian Ocean and every landmass that touches it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=20&v=8LTTgQdbO9Y

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3163444e786b7a6333566d54/share_p.html

So there is some concern that China from middle east media aka Aljezzera is milking it like a cow- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSzqVYomZ9I

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 16, 2018 7:33 PM

The Chinese have become the expanding capitalists of the 3rd world.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, March 16, 2018 8:07 PM

It galls me to say this, but it was a good idea when the Chinese were doing this in the '70s and it still is today.  None of the Western powers are stepping up to the plate to build these critical pieces of infrastructure, and all the ones I've seen described are not 'financed' against future earnings with a threat of imperialist occupation if the notes are somehow not met.

Of course it galls me further to see the Chinese getting the advantage of cheaper raw materials from these African nations, and I chuckle a bit at how well the 'production surplus' from the miners' labor and so forth is accounted for in Chinese doctrine.  But THEY were the ones who actually built the enabling technology, so why shouldn't they receive any exordinate amount of profit or advantage from it?

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Friday, March 16, 2018 9:00 PM

It's my impression that the Chinese "Communists" expect to turn a profit on their investments.  And that they don't do it because it is "nice".

If I was a Mr. Big in a small country, and the Chinese wanted to invest, I think I'd have my lawyers read the contract REAL well.  And then maybe go in.  If they make a profit, and "we" make a profit (in the narrow and also wide sense), I'd be in.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 16, 2018 9:18 PM

Yes and the benefits will be profound and far reaching for them. Smart play with the nation building via railroads and mining. The next generation big big wave of immigration will be from Africa...while our 2 countries continue on their path of debt, political gridlock, moral decline with a docile empty headed super dumbed down population. 

The Eloi ....and the Morlocks. 

Maybe that is a bit dark but Wells was a lot smarter than me. 

Can't go wrong building railroads and extracting resources. 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Saturday, March 17, 2018 3:02 PM

It is important to note that the work is probably not being done with local labor.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Saturday, March 17, 2018 6:42 PM

As I understand it, the Chinese are building oil fields on the west coast of South America (or Africa, not sure which) and they are closed camps using only Chinese labour, or labour that they bring from the Phillipines who will work for almsot nothing like they do in the Emirates and so forth. Not bring the locals jobs, just there to exploit the same as the westerners did 200 years ago. 

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:47 PM

I don't see any problem with this as the whole world is going to benefit from it.    For one if they build a decent coast to coast rail network it lessens the strategic importance of South Africa on the horn.    Which is good as South Africa ain't doing so well in the Democracy area of late.    The markets China is developing and opening are not exclusively China's they are open to the entire world to compete for.   China is benefiting via goodwill as well as somewhat financially the railway equipment and steel, etc is probably comming from China.    They are building to STANDARD GAUGE standards as they build the network as well instead of keeping each country's gauge.    So that is good too.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, March 18, 2018 8:33 PM

I look at it this way, if the Chinese are willing to take a chance on Africa's political instability, corruption, ancient hatreds, and God knows what else, who are we to say they shouldn't?

I won't say best of luck to 'em, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 1,568 posts
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Monday, March 19, 2018 6:05 AM

Firelock76

I look at it this way, if the Chinese are willing to take a chance on Africa's political instability, corruption, ancient hatreds, and God knows what else, who are we to say they shouldn't?

I won't say best of luck to 'em, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

Yes The United States has had experiance with creating Liberia and failed attempts at Africa Colonsization

 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, March 19, 2018 9:54 AM

 

Why would it be important to build an interconnecting railroad system? Wouldn’t most of the freight be raw natural resources shipped from mine to the nearest port facility for export?

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: MP CF161.6 NS's New Castle District in NE Indiana
  • 2,148 posts
Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, March 19, 2018 10:54 AM

The chinese can afford to take a long view with their investments.  Eventually those miners will be locals and make enough to buy imported chinese-manufactured goods.  A rail network, as opposed to a single one-way route will allow those chinese goods to flow in efficiently (and cheaply) thereby benefitting the Chinese again.  

Mike (2-8-2)
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Monday, March 19, 2018 10:56 AM
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 19, 2018 11:24 AM

rrnut282
The Chinese can afford to take a long view with their investments.

I was thinking along the same lines.  The ability to ship between various points may become valuable, nevermind bringing finished goods inland.

A route across the continent might allow the kind of land bridge US railways run with some containers.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, March 19, 2018 1:07 PM

rrnut282

The chinese can afford to take a long view with their investments.  Eventually those miners will be locals and make enough to buy imported chinese-manufactured goods.  A rail network, as opposed to a single one-way route will allow those chinese goods to flow in efficiently (and cheaply) thereby benefitting the Chinese again.  

 



Well, they wouldn't be one way railroads. They could just as easily ship finished goods from China back up the pike. Since the raw materials are in Africa and the finished goods are in China, why would you need a rail network to connect say, Angola with Kenya?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, March 19, 2018 6:10 PM

CandOforprogress2
 
Firelock76

I look at it this way, if the Chinese are willing to take a chance on Africa's political instability, corruption, ancient hatreds, and God knows what else, who are we to say they shouldn't?

I won't say best of luck to 'em, but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

 

 

Yes The United States has had experiance with creating Liberia and failed attempts at Africa Colonsization

 

 

 

Well, Liberia was more an example of repatriation than colonization.  The whys, wherefores, and how it turned out in the end anyone can look up if they choose, it's beyond the scope of this discussion.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 19, 2018 7:22 PM

My observation of the European colonization of Africa is that it was done to keep the local inhabitants clueless to the enconomic theft the Europeans were 'stealing' the mineral resources of the African continent.

I wonder if the Chinese interest in Africa will parallell the European or go beyond it and actually improve the lives of the Africans?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 1,568 posts
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 12:35 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyiUCra6rxo    every thing you need to know about the Chinese Railways and plans for World Domination.

 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 6:52 AM

BaltACD

My observation of the European colonization of Africa is that it was done to keep the local inhabitants clueless to the enconomic theft the Europeans were 'stealing' the mineral resources of the African continent.

I wonder if the Chinese interest in Africa will parallell the European or go beyond it and actually improve the lives of the Africans?

 
I don't think that the Chinese are going to be all that different from the Europeans when it comes to Africa.  Geopolitics is a sizable part of the calculation and the goal may well be to turn sub-Saharan Africa into a Chinese sphere of influence.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, March 20, 2018 12:29 PM

Bingo.

  • Member since
    January 2016
  • 70 posts
Posted by jlehnert on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 5:03 AM

Be interesting to see what happens the first time one of the countries decides to "Nationalize" (aka steal) some of the infrastructure the Chinese paid for. 

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 7:15 AM

I get the impression that the third world is on the brink of exploding growth to an extent that would be unimaginable in the U.S. these days.  For them, the time has come, and they see no reason to hold back.  The investment capital is available. For us, the time is as right as ever, but we have developed an undercurrent of a perceived need to hold back as though growth is very dangerous and must be carefully restrained.   

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 8:41 AM

“It’s a myth that no Africans get to work on these projects…. The reason the Chinese go there is because of cheap labor, since labor costs in China itself are rising."

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/chinas-investments-in-africa-whats-the-real-story/

 

 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy