Inspired by Brian Schmidt’s “Railroad photography: Shooting for publication” very recent blog, it must be said that TRAINS current photo submission guidelines policy strikes this forum contributor as doomed. Who in their right mind would submit a screwed up photo? But, yet, that is what TRAINS wants, unaltered RAW ones. Is the famed rail photographer Richard Steinheimer now turning over in his grave?
Working against TRAINS Magazine is a disjointed organization! Yes, disjointed, where the right hand doesn’t seem to know what the left is doing. Contradictory instructions for submissions and inquiry email addresses that don’t work are the sure signs of an impending magazine name change to “Zero Photos Rail Magazine.”
It is unknown if a new publisher is needed, or if someone’s head needs to be chopped off, but something needs to be done at Kalmbach, as incompetence invariably leads to oblivion. PLEASE, PLEASE DO SOMETHING, KALMBACH! You are acting like Amtrak, a severely strangled organization!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Already the "Photo of the Day" feature could be renamed "Photo of the Week", or perhaps "Photo of the whenever we get around to it".
Since 2/18, there have been only 3 photos: Mac in the mist is repeated 8 times; Crossroads is repeated 7 times; and Local hero has been repeted 9 times (so far).
And somewhat related, it seemed to me that the April 2018 issue had a smaller "Gallery" section, as well as a smaller "Ask Trains" feature.
K. P. Harrier It is unknown if a new publisher is needed, or if someone’s head needs to be chopped off, but something needs to be done at Kalmbach, as incompetence invariably leads to oblivion. PLEASE, PLEASE DO SOMETHING, KALMBACH! You are acting like Amtrak, a severely strangled organization!
Ouch!! Before you go to those extremes maybe contact the magazine directly and get clarification..
I believe this has been addressed before - the reason for wanting the RAW file is so the image can be tweaked for publication. I would submit that one should send both the "finished" image and the RAW file so they can see what you intended for the image before making any adjustments to accomodate the printing process.
This would be very important if you cropped or adjusted the image to gain a certain effect.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
K. P. Harrier It is unknown if a new publisher is needed, or if someone’s head needs to be chopped off,
It is unknown if a new publisher is needed, or if someone’s head needs to be chopped off,
An "expensive model collector"
NO, asking if the magazine is going down the tubes would be rude and frankly not a useful question. You might write to them with specific concerns. Ask why photos are repeated so often. Ask them what are the most common reasons photos are rejected. Ask why yours were rejected. Ask them specific things they can answer.
Would you call a restaurant and ask why they are so awful? What could they say if you did? If you called to say that every time you go there the potatoes come out cold, or the meat is never seasoned, or the waiter is always rude, or you wish the bathrooms were cleaner, those would be answerable and helpful.
So extend the same courtesy to Kalmbach.
I'll bet you I could go out and buy a camera at Best Buy tonight, take some rail pictures over the weekend and get at least one of them published in Trains Magazine without even reading the guidelines.
This thread has too much drama.
While I admire the photographs of Richard Steinheimer and Ansel Adams, and can recognise their work often without reading a caption, sometimes this style of photography isn't what is needed for a magazine.
Dr Louis A. Marre once said to me that after the end of steam, Steinhiemer never took a photo on the same side of the train as the the sunlight. Look at his photos accompanying the 1973 (or so) article on Cajon Pass and an earlier one on Donner Pass (from which I recall the black outline of a PA-1 against a mountain as the opening photo). There is no question that Steinhiemer was an artist, and DP Morgan was happy to run those photos.
But these were in feature articles that utilised Steinheimer's abilities to illustrate specific areas of pictorial interest. They didn't use the black outline of an SP PA-1 to report developments in passenger trains on the Overland Route, for example.
Most of the photos that Trains need are straight clear images of everyday operation to illustrate news and regular articles. If they have some flair, they are more ikely to be used.
I myself am stuck in the film era, although I have taken digital photos since mid 2003. Generally, I work on the theory that if the JPEG out of the camera looks really good, you don't need to adjust it, and if it isn't, you keep it in case the subject becomes important, and let a publisher enhance it if it deserves the attention. We did that with a particular Track Machine, (a Loram grinder) which became an item of interest.
I feel that if around half of my photos look able to be published out of the camera, I've had a good day. I try very hard to frame the subject correctly in the camera to reduce the need for cropping, and use a good quality zoom lens to get the framing right first time.
I use white balance presets to get the colour right (or nearly so) on overcast days, again avoiding the need to adjust the colour in post processing.
I grew up taking colour slides, so i haven't changed my process of taking photos.
Peter
To all:
Forum contributor tree68 perhaps posted a most sensible reply, about sending how one requests the photo be cropped and also a RAW image. He is to be commended for it. But, do submission instructions say that?
Many have suggested contacting Kalmbach and inquiring about one’s concerns and asking questions. Imagine if a thousand subscribers and / or readers did that? Wouldn’t that cost Kalmbach a whole bunch of money, to the point of them having to raise the cover price and subscription rates? It would seem a one place, one stop instruction page that covered everything would be better, and be of a non-contradictory nature, and updatable. Now that would be sensible, and the cheapest thing to do.
A friend’s photo reproduced by permission, of BNSF trains near Frost, CA
As it is, Kalmbach gives the definite impression they don’t want photo submissions, or that they don’t know how to deal with the volume of contributions, and believe confusion is the way to go. At least that is my impression. But people like plain, informative instructions that are true instructions, and those people are apt to do as the instructions say. And, where people usually don’t do what they are instructed, that is a place to point that out! But, instructions that give erroneous links smacks of incompetence, and an organization in disarray hardly inspires people to give their hard earned money to the company for products and subscriptions. It is as simple as that.
In the blog, “Railroad photography: Shooting for publication,” forumist zardoz pointed out, quoting:
zardoz Even Ansel Adams said that much of the credit for the quality of his images came from his darkroom techniques. “Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships"..” ― Ansel Adams “You don't take a photograph, you make it.” ― Ansel Adams www.brainyquote.com/.../ansel_adams
Even Ansel Adams said that much of the credit for the quality of his images came from his darkroom techniques.
“Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships"..”
― Ansel Adams
“You don't take a photograph, you make it.”
www.brainyquote.com/.../ansel_adams
So, Kalmbach seems to be going against what works! Do they really want good, outstanding photos from talented, skillful people?
Concerning graphic language, some graphic things are well-known and understood in the business world, and those in the business world should take them to heart. Especially since not taking those things to heart, as illustrate above, costs more money than anyone wants to admit.
Who wants to stand up and shout: “We are for stupidity!” I certainly won’t. But, I will stand up and shout, “I am for competence!” I trust the rest of the forum would too, unless they don’t mind a destiny of a spiraling down abyss.
K.P.
I too posted just after Zardoz in the blog...
This was my take:
What Trains staff have to do is to optimise the photo for printing on paper, which many of the contributors would not have considered. How many of us here have printed a photo prior to submitting it for publication, to see whether it looks as good on paper as it does on screen? And even then, the printer we use might not reproduce the photo the way the presses at Trains Magazine do.
What Brian Schmidt is saying is not to reduce the options available to the Trains production staff by editing the photo before submission. Even Ansel Adams took the size of display into account in deciding how to process the print. He probably took advice from the printers in selecting photos for publication. I have a couple of his books.
Let the Trains production staff take account of "God's mistakes", even those in areas with which a photographer would be unfamiliar.
K. P. Harrier Concerning graphic language, some graphic things are well-known and understood in the business world,
Concerning graphic language, some graphic things are well-known and understood in the business world,
It always makes me smile when someone hides behing the "buisness world" when saying something overdramatic and ridiculous.
K. P. Harrier But, yet, that is what TRAINS wants, unaltered RAW ones
I have to strongly side with the magazine on this one. What they want, and what we read the magazine for is the subject matter...."trains". I really have no interest for whatever "filter lab" effects some monkey can cook up banging away at a keyboard.
Way too much altered reality is being passed off as "photography" at enthusiast sites across the spectrum, from nature to trains to automobiles, etc.
If someone really needs a pat on the back for being able to figure out how to install and operate shrinkwrap software, let them go to a computer hobbyist site and petition their peers there.
To follow on with what KP said - perhaps a concise guide to photo submission would be useful. I've never seen it requested to send both the RAW and JPG in - that simply occurred to me as applicable if you've done substantial cropping or post-processing that you wish to convey to the editors.
You might not be pleased if the image printed did not convey the same impression that you intended.
Witness - the story of the photo lab people who went to great lengths to "fix" the print of a film image that included a green dog. Had to be an exposure problem, right? The dog came out an improbable tan, and the photographer was miffed because she wanted to show off the green dye job she'd done on the dog...
Anyhow...
An opinion - virtually everyone today carries a camera that has higher resolution than my digital Rebel, in the form of their cell phone. Imagine if everyone who just took the "photo of the decade" (sarcasm intended) on their cell phone sent it in for consideration. That would be a lot of pictures to wade through for an image that might be great in content but might not be savable for publication.
By asking for the RAW file, perhaps this helps keep such submissions to a minimum. If you are seriously considering submitting a photo for publication, you're going to set your DSLR for RAW or RAW+JPG so you have the file.
It might do the OP some good if he shot about a half dozen rolls of film instead of digital for a change. Shooting film teaches discipline and forces you to compose your shot in advance. I know that my pictures will never get published (not an issue for me) but I do know that I am better than what I was forty years ago when I first started with an Argus C-3.
If it helps, this is part of the photographer guidelines published on the website. Please note that it states JPEGs can be submitted, but states that they prefer RAW files. It doesn't say you can't submit a jpeg. Bold and underline is mine, not theirs.
'We rely heavily on reader-submitted digital images, provided they are of sufficient resolution for magazine reproduction.'You may upload your digital images to www.contribute.kalmbach.com. Please choose "Trains" and provide caption data in the comment field. You will receive an email message indicating that your images were successfully uploaded. Digital image submissions may be archived for future use. Please keep this in mind when submitting to multiple publications.'If submitting news photos, please send them as soon as possible after the event. If you are submitting news photos to multiple railroad publications, it is best to send different views to each so that each publication has exclusive photos.'Digital images should be at least 6 megapixels in size, however we prefer images that are 12 megapixels or larger for greater flexibility. Send only original, unaltered files directly from the digital camera. JPG files are useable, but we prefer RAW files (Canon CR2, Nikon NEF, etc.).'Caption information submitted with uploads should include: Location; date; railroad the train is operating on (not just the locomotives pictured); and train symbol, if known. Our archivist/librarian may contact you for additional information in the image is stored for future use.
Now, who's up for a cup of decaf?
Bob Keller
zardoz Already the "Photo of the Day" feature could be renamed "Photo of the Week", or perhaps "Photo of the whenever we get around to it". Since 2/18, there have been only 3 photos: Mac in the mist is repeated 8 times; Crossroads is repeated 7 times; and Local hero has been repeted 9 times (so far). And somewhat related, it seemed to me that the April 2018 issue had a smaller "Gallery" section, as well as a smaller "Ask Trains" feature.
Zardoz,
We are currently working on issues that preclude us from managing our "Photo of the Day" feature appropriately. Believe me, we are frustrated, too. But I am so glad you enjoy that feature!
As for the smaller April "Gallery," that is in direct correlation to the fact that I needed an extra two pages for "In My Own Words." I found some cool photos of the B&H in the library that hadn't seen the light of day. I felt they should. This decision also squeezed "Ask Trains." Again, I am happy to see that you enjoy those sections. I hope you can understand our decision.
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine
CSSHEGEWISCH It might do the OP some good if he shot about a half dozen rolls of film instead of digital for a change. Shooting film teaches discipline and forces you to compose your shot in advance.
It might do the OP some good if he shot about a half dozen rolls of film instead of digital for a change. Shooting film teaches discipline and forces you to compose your shot in advance.
I've just been going through my slide collection (of 30+ years), and I am amazed at what a pain they are. Fragile, bulky, and subject to fading--what's to like? A decent digital camera will take images of sufficient resolution (12+ megapixels, as Trains asks for) to be used in a magazine.
However, I feel that raw photos generally lack any sort of "pop" compared to good slides (Fugi Provia 100). However, the ability to digitally remove unwanted clutter from a photo (i.e. garbage and debris littering the ROW) is a definite plus.
Anyway, from some of the images I've seen in the "Photo of the day" feature, their criteria for quality images is questionable. Perhaps the images are 'directly from the camera', but many of them are, well, rather boring and uninspiring.
If only Ansel Adams had taken railroad photos....
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak zardoz Already the "Photo of the Day" feature could be renamed "Photo of the Week", or perhaps "Photo of the whenever we get around to it". Since 2/18, there have been only 3 photos: Mac in the mist is repeated 8 times; Crossroads is repeated 7 times; and Local hero has been repeted 9 times (so far). And somewhat related, it seemed to me that the April 2018 issue had a smaller "Gallery" section, as well as a smaller "Ask Trains" feature. Zardoz, We are currently working on issues that preclude us from managing our "Photo of the Day" feature appropriately. Believe me, we are frustrated, too. But I am so glad you enjoy that feature! As for the smaller April "Gallery," that is in direct correlation to the fact that I needed an extra two pages for "In My Own Words." I found some cool photos of the B&H in the library that hadn't seen the light of day. I felt they should. This decision also squeezed "Ask Trains." Again, I am happy to see that you enjoy those sections. I hope you can understand our decision.
Thanks for the response and the expanation.
Amature night with real people who have some real flaws that make it real authentic. Karaoke Night is loved because its real. Same with art.
To Four of the Posters Sequencially Above --
Convicted One to Bob Keller (All 3-14)
Poster tree68 still stands out as the most solution minded responder, with the submitting to TRAINS of a re-composed .JEP to one’s liking AND an unalterable RAW photo. That makes the most sense. But NOWHERE, at least that I’ve yet seen, does TRAINS say or imply such wisdom is what they want.
As far as I know, the great TRAINS editor Jim Wrinn is not a photographer, and has little mental comprehension of a photographer, which is not bad in itself because everyone has a gift of sorts that they excel in. Some on staff do have great photographic skill, but most are not of the caliber of Adams and Steinheimer. But, yet those are the ones judging what photos TRAINS readers will see. Perhaps that is why (“why”) the policy is as it is, because the editors for the most part have no comprehensive comprehension of photo composition.
Thus, anyone with strong composition skill would be turned off (and thus would NOT submit photos to TRAINS) by a policy that favors unskilled photo croppers that would destroy their reputation as a photographer. What TRAINS is saying by implication is all great photographers need not apply, and that they should go elsewhere with their photos. In essence, they say: We only want photos that we can highlight what WE want to highlight in, even if it breaks all photo composition rules.
Unfortunately, that is a suicidal approach, as it takes out all incentives for great photography. Sure, some may find it a novelty to get a photo or two published, but they soon will find the costs are not worth it, especially when the Mrs. barks in disgust when she finds out that hypo was bought instead of baby formula, and the baby is crying uncontrollably … Well, you get the point.
Of course, TRAINS (currently, at least) appears to have sufficient photos submitted to keep publishing the magazine. However, everyone should know that so much appears to be escaping TRAINS’ readership’s attention, that especially news items are not coming to them.
Several months ago TRAINS newswire posted an erroneous report that the San Gabriel Trench (San Gabriel, CA) was now open and was seeing through trains in it. I knew that wasn’t true. A colleague in the office drove all the way over to the San Gabriel Trench, and took photos of the STILL unconnected track. But, TRAINS refused to believe the photos, but rather a newspaper that didn’t know what it was talking about.
There are some that say that ‘one cannot teach an old dog new tricks.’ Perhaps that is true with TRAINS. I think most will agree, though, that we all hope that that old dog doesn’t die on us anytime soon …
zardoz I've just been going through my slide collection (of 30+ years), and I am amazed at what a pain they are. Fragile, bulky, and subject to fading--what's to like?
I've just been going through my slide collection (of 30+ years), and I am amazed at what a pain they are. Fragile, bulky, and subject to fading--what's to like?
A lot. Once slides faded from use, I gave up the hobby. I still have my collection, and add to it through eBay now and then, but I don't take pictures of trains anymore. I always considered myself a photographer, and have no interest in the graphic artist's digitally altered concoctions that are so often seen today.
GoodtimingReally? What are you going to ask - “is your magazine going down the tubes like most others?”.
No, would ask for some clarification on their photo submission policy.
Well they finally changed the 'Photo of the Day' and it's ....it's ....what?
Fog with some lights.
My answer to all this is that I enjoy reading Trains and Classic Trains far too much to worry about all of this. Even my problems with the moderator and the edit button are tiny compared the joy I get in reading the magazine. The photos that they publish are just icing on the cake. That Krebs article on unscrambling Texas was the highlight of the day I read it. I figure that if they NEED some particular photo from me, they will ask for it, and will do my best to provide eactly want they want when they want it. Meanwhile, I will enjoy YOUR submissions -- in peace.
Miningman Well they finally changed the 'Photo of the Day' and it's ....it's ....what? Fog with some lights.
Better than a polar bear in a snowstorm!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
n012944 zardoz I've just been going through my slide collection (of 30+ years), and I am amazed at what a pain they are. Fragile, bulky, and subject to fading--what's to like? A lot. Once slides faded from use, I gave up the hobby. I still have my collection, and add to it through eBay now and then, but I don't take pictures of trains anymore. I always considered myself a photographer, and have no interest in the graphic artist's digitally altered concoctions that are so often seen today.
I, too, had given up on slides after digital came out, although the reasons were different. Like you, I loved the image quality that I got from slides--the richness of color, the spledid contrast, the challenge of getting a proper exposure within the limits of the narrow latitude of slides. However, I got tired of the slides coming back from processing with scratches and chemical drips, and I definitely got tired of the cost. With digital, it is all under my control.
To me, most digital images, especially early (pre-2010) digital are, compared to slides, drab and lifeless. They are ok for portraits as well as greyscale, but for landscapes and clouds and sky and trains, slides totally ruled. I remember telling people that when digital gets to 20MP per image, then perhaps I would give up slides. Then I discovered the miracle of post-processing software, and I could at least start to get an approximation of the IQ of slides, even from some of my 12MP images.
I began to learn about composition, light theory, and how to "see outside the box". I also learned that sometimes I needed to shoot for a potential market, but sometimes I needed to shoot just for myself--it was the balance that I needed to understand.
In addition, the 'digitally altered concoctions' to which you refer, are images that I also find trite and ordinary. However, the skillfull modification of a finely crafted digital image can still evoke an emotional response of appreciation.
Semper Vaporo Miningman Well they finally changed the 'Photo of the Day' and it's ....it's ....what? Fog with some lights. Better than a polar bear in a snowstorm!
I still take pictures with my Leia M3. I take them to keep friends, mostly in the USA, up-to-date on transit and railroad matters in Israel. Perhaps soon this will include Jordan as well. I use either Kodacolor or Fuji, which ever my one friendly photo store has at the time. i am rarely as satisfied with the original image on the CD that the photostore give me, but I find that usually the automatic balanc feature of Microsoft Photo Editor immediately gives me good contrast and color balance. Of course unless I save the original, and usually I don't, this removes any consideration for submitting to a Kalmbach publication. If I consder that possibilty, then I would submit both. About one-in-five times I find the automatic balance does not give the desired results, and I need to use all the balance features of Photo Editor and sometimes Paint in addition to get what I want. Occasionally there have been scratches, not recently, but Paint and careful work eliminated them.
Enzoamps NO, asking if the magazine is going down the tubes would be rude and frankly not a useful question.
NO, asking if the magazine is going down the tubes would be rude and frankly not a useful question.
Say! Is the magazine going down the tubes? I just got a subscription and hope it stays around a bit.
(Do hope people have a sense of humor about this one...)
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