Billy Graham

[wanswheel]

daveklepper

Will somebody please explain why I Alone get constant flack on this kind of thing 

Because you rode the B&O before most of us were even born? Because you've contributed 10 times more railroad-related posts than most of us ever will? Because you're too darn handsome? 

Excerpt from Pro Audio Encyclopedia book review by David Klepper http://proaudioencyclopedia.com/electroacoustics-by-mendel-kleiner-a-book-review/  Mendel Kleiner, emeritus professor at Sweden’s Chalmers University, reminds me of Frank Julian Sprague, who developed the multiple unit control for the front railway car to control the motors in many following railway cars, essential for all of today’s subway trains and other rail applications, even diesel locomotives. After developing a patentable electro-pneumatic control for Westinghouse, first applied to Chicago’s South Side elevated in 1899, he then invented a competitive purely electromagnetic control for General Electric, and one that was compatible in circuits at the couplers with the earlier system!

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

Charlie Hebdo complained about a posting that did not relate to trains.  But I was simply replying to a posting that answered a posting the certainly did discuss train travel and why it was more practical than plane travel for my professional career as an acoustical constulant. The posting wihtout mention of trains also emphaized this point indiirectly.  Will somebody please explain why I Alone get constant flack on this kind of thing while others stray far far away from subject matter, repeadedly, without a single complaint ever?

 

Dave, I am the one who mentioned a particular church--without writing a single word about church hierarchy; how that came in, I have no idea--I was simply pointing out that Montreat was not Billy Graham's preserve. Please do not think you are the only one whose post was objected to.

Now, back to trains.

[daveklepper]

Charlie Hebdo complained about a posting that did not relate to trains.  But I was simply replying to a posting that answered a posting the certainly did discuss train travel and why it was more practical than plane travel for my professional career as an acoustical constulant. The posting wihtout mention of trains also emphaized this point indiirectly.  Will somebody please explain why I Alone get constant flack on this kind of thing while others stray far far away from subject matter, repeadedly, without a single complaint ever?

[wanswheel]

John Foster Dulles advises Billy forget the white train.

[charlie hebdo]

wanswheel

Now, we don't know what the evangelist had in mind for his white train peace symbol, whether he conceived it as a rolling banner or a movable museum; and it doesn't matter. What matters is that a mass of people, a Third World power with thrice our population, a land of uncommon problems, would have been extended an olive branch, a dove, which the people could witness. We are told that Secretary Dulles told Graham of his problems.

Railroads were a rationalization.  The Dulles brothers had a strong dislike for neutralism (non-alignment) in general and Nehru in particular.  An oportunity lost.

[wanswheel]

Billy met all the presidents of my lifetime except the incumbent, who touched his coffin at the Capitol yesterday. None more railroad-related than Harry.

http://www.dailyherald.com/news/20180221/images-rev-billy-graham-1918---2018

 

https://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs/view.php?id=13766  

 

 

 

https://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs/view.php?id=21143

[wanswheel]

Excerpt from article by David P. Morgan:  Anyone within shot of Lucius Beebe's pen has heard of the "White Train" — the popular name of a celebrated New York-Boston express of the 1890's whose creamy white coaches, parlors, and Royal Buffet smokers were drawn by a double-headlight 4-4-0 burning whitewashed coal. Remember the verse composed in its honor? Without a jar or roll or antic, Without a stop at Willimantic. In the 1950's a celebrated American suggested another but different white train. He was evangelist Billy Graham. His idea came to light in a series of articles on Graham written by Mary Bishop, a reporter for the Charlotte (N.C.) Observer. We are indebted to the paper for permission to print this excerpt: When Graham returned from India in 1956, he told President Eisenhower that theUnited States should give that nation an ultramodern white train as a symbol of peace. Graham explained his intent, in referring to former Secretary of State John Foster Dulles: 'Mr. Dulles, while I was in India,...had okayed a gift to them of 50 million dollars. That was on the back page of the [Indian] papers. On the same day that announcement came out, (the late Soviet leaders) Mr. (Nikolai) Bulganin and Mr. (Nikita) Khrushchev had given (the late Indian Prime Minister) Mr. Nehru a white horse. Well, the white horse was on the front page of every paper in India. I said, 'The Indians don't know what $50 million are. They'll never see it. They'll never feel it but they know what a white horse is. Suppose they saw this white train going back and forth.’ " Later, Dulles told Graham the train wouldn’t be a good idea. “He outlined all his problems that I wasn’t aware of,” said Graham. 

End of story, alas.Do we need to add for this audience that Billy had a capital idea? Think of all the special trains that have captivated America — the political whistle stops, the circus extras, the Prosperity Special of 1922, the Freedom Trains of 1947 and 1976, yes, and all of the railfan excursions from 1934 to the latest schedules of 610, 2101, 8444, etc. Now, we don't know what the evangelist had in mind for his white train peace symbol, whether he conceived it as a rolling banner or a movable museum; and it doesn't matter. What matters is that a mass of people, a Third World power with thrice our population, a land of uncommon problems, would have been extended an olive branch, a dove, which the people could witness. We are told that Secretary Dulles told Graham of his problems. Perhaps gauge was one. India has, in round numbers, 18,000 route-miles of 5-foot 6-inch track and 16,000 of 3-foot 3³⁄₈-inch. So two white trains might have been in order...  

https://books.google.com/books?id=jHMgQPsy2N8C&pg=PA274&dq=%22a+distinctive+white+train%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFn9yMssrZAhVBnlkKHdE9Aj4Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=%22a%20distinctive%20white%20train%22&f=false

[charlie hebdo]

daveklepper

Thanks.   Then the connection was with the Presbyterian Church.  My first paper for the Acpistocal Society Journal, July 1959, vol 1, No. 7, was on Stamford, Connecticut's First Pres., the "Fish Church," Harrison and Abromovitz, arch.  Actuslly W. Ranger Farrell and Bob Newman did the design consulting, but with Howard Rockstrom's assisance, I did the check-out.  After tha paper was published, I worked on lots of Presbyterian Churches, including the National Pres. in Washngton and began to be the consultant for nearly all of that architect's projects, architect Harold Wagoner.

I don't remember the details of the auditorium or amphetheater.  But there is no reason why a hall with open sides and rear, intended for summertime use, cannot have the addition of walls to complete it as an enclosed auditorium, with air-condiioning and heating added for year-round use.

 

Church hierarchy, architecture, acoustical engineering, but there is not a thing to do with railroads.

[daveklepper]

Thanks.   Then the connection was with the Presbyterian Church.  My first paper for the Acpistocal Society Journal, July 1959, vol 1, No. 7, was on Stamford, Connecticut's First Pres., the "Fish Church," Harrison and Abromovitz, arch.  Actuslly W. Ranger Farrell and Bob Newman did the design consulting, but with Howard Rockstrom's assisance, I did the check-out.  After tha paper was published, I worked on lots of Presbyterian Churches, including the National Pres. in Washngton and began to be the consultant for nearly all of that architect's projects, architect Harold Wagoner.

I don't remember the details of the auditorium or amphetheater.  But there is no reason why a hall with open sides and rear, intended for summertime use, cannot have the addition of walls to complete it as an enclosed auditorium, with air-condiioning and heating added for year-round use.

[Firelock76]

Aside from his use of trains for transportation, does anyone know if Billy Graham was a railfan, or even a model railroader?  Just curious.

Not being a very religious person myself, I loved to hear Billy Graham speak.  Wow, what a spellbinder he was!  Just full of passion for his cause, I and do admire passion!  There'll never be another one like him, truly one of a kind.

[wanswheel]

 

https://archive.org/stream/floodsonswannano00tenn_0#page/8/mode/2up

Johnny, 1953 is the latest SR timetable I can find.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=34298

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1245215

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1245213

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

Johnney, thanks for the information.  I think southbound the car I rode came through from New York.  Northbound, I got off at Washington, but that might have been for a stop-over for a job there, rather than the car being switched out there.

And the amphitheatre must have been Montreat itself.  I did not know the Billy Graham connection at the time.  I just worked on whatever projects the people at BBN sssigned me, until after a few years I did start bringing in new projects on my own.  But the connection between my work on the amphetheatre and for the Crusade is obvious in retrospect.   This is all some 55 years ago!   I did enjoy the work, and the opportunity to ride trains was definitely part of it.

One advantage of the trains was that I could carry all the necessary test equipment with me.  A Bruel and Kjaer sound-level-meter with attached octave-band-analyser, and a Uher battery-operated 7-1/2-reel tape-recorder, replaced by a Philips cassette-recorder when it became available.  Plus my briefcase.  The tape or cassette recorder was also used as a test signal source, with prepared 1/3-octave-band constant-level test tapes, to feed the input of any sound system being tested, and/or use with local portable equipment for sound-isolaton measurements.

Today, one can buy a compact audio-analysis digital device, from several manufacturers, that combines all these funtions.

 

Dave, Montreat was the conference center for the Presbyterian Church in the United States (also known as the "Southern Presbyterian Church.") Anderson Auditorium may have been the place (it is not an amphitheater; I have been to several meetings there). 

Also, Billy Graham had no official connection with Montreat; he simply had his residence there, just as his father-in-law lived there after he retired from his work as a medical missionary in China.

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Asheville Special didn't stop at Black Mountain, of course. Maybe for Billy it did.

https://www.american-rails.com/asheville-special.html

One of the reasons he rode trains was the discount for clergy.

https://books.google.com/books?id=jHMgQPsy2N8C&pg=PA95&dq=%22because+the+railroads+gave+clergy%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFl--w77_ZAhURpFkKHbuPARYQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=%22because%20the%20railroads%20gave%20clergy%22&f=false

 

Mike, I believe that you should post a schedule from the time that Dave said he was in the area, not when 31 & 32 still ran from Washington. Without my looking through my Southern timetables, I believe that Southern had discontinued  31 and 32 north of Charlotte, and the New York and Washington cars, except for the NewYork to Asheville car were carried in the Crescent while on the main line.

Also, the condensed timetable does not show all of the stops; the table showing Greensboro-Asheville shows that Black Mountain was a scheduled stop for all passenger trains going through there. (I rode the Ashevile Special from Black Mountain to Asheville in 1964--I was not famous.)

[daveklepper]

Johnney, thanks for the information.  I think southbound the car I rode came through from New York.  Northbound, I got off at Washington, but that might have been for a stop-over for a job there, rather than the car being switched out there.

And the amphitheatre must have been Montreat itself.  I did not know the Billy Graham connection at the time.  I just worked on whatever projects the people at BBN sssigned me, until after a few years I did start bringing in new projects on my own.  But the connection between my work on the amphetheatre and for the Crusade is obvious in retrospect.   This is all some 55 years ago!   I did enjoy the work, and the opportunity to ride trains was definitely part of it.

One advantage of the trains was that I could carry all the necessary test equipment with me.  A Bruel and Kjaer sound-level-meter with attached octave-band-analyser, and a Uher battery-operated 7-1/2-reel tape-recorder, replaced by a Philips cassette-recorder when it became available.  Plus my briefcase.  The tape or cassette recorder was also used as a test signal source, with prepared 1/3-octave-band constant-level test tapes, to feed the input of any sound system being tested, and/or use with local portable equipment for sound-isolaton measurements.

Today, one can buy a compact audio-analysis digital device, from several manufacturers, that combines all these funtions.

[wanswheel]

https://www.gettyimages.com/license/50570188

 

Excerpt from Arkansas Online http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2018/feb/24/graham-admirers-recall-his-influence-20/   When Graham came to Little Rock in 1959 to preach, some segregationists protested, warning that he would try to integrate the city's white churches. But then-Gov. Orval Faubus urged Graham's critics not to interfere with the integrated worship services. Over two days, an estimated 50,000 Arkansans, white and black, gathered in prayer at War Memorial Stadium.

[wanswheel]

Asheville Special didn't stop at Black Mountain, of course. Maybe for Billy it did.

https://www.american-rails.com/asheville-special.html

One of the reasons he rode trains was the discount for clergy.

https://books.google.com/books?id=jHMgQPsy2N8C&pg=PA95&dq=%22because+the+railroads+gave+clergy%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFl--w77_ZAhURpFkKHbuPARYQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=%22because%20the%20railroads%20gave%20clergy%22&f=false

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

Is not Bkack Mountain on the Southern Railway branch to Ashville?  I believe I used the Ashville branch Pullman from New York or Washington and used the Black Mountain station to perform an acoustical analysis on amphiteater belonging to a religious organization.  This woiuld have been around 1960 or 1961.  The scenery on the branch line was terrific, and I spent much time on the rear vestibule with the sleeper at the end of the train.  Did not know at the time of the Billy Graham connection, although it is certainly possible that there was some connection with my work at the Boston Crusade(s) and the work at the amphiteatre.

The sleeper, if I remember correctly, was a regular 1--and-6, and I do not remember which train it was handled on south of Washington.  Someone with OGs of the period can answer.

The Retreat was also a beautiful spot.

 

The train was the Asheville Special--I think that the Asheville car was handled on the Southerner from Washington to Greensboro at that time; northbound, it was handled on the Crescent from Greensboro to Washington.

[wanswheel]

[daveklepper]

Is not Bkack Mountain on the Southern Railway branch to Ashville?  I believe I used the Ashville branch Pullman from New York or Washington and used the Black Mountain station to perform an acoustical analysis on amphiteater belonging to a religious organization.  This woiuld have been around 1960 or 1961.  The scenery on the branch line was terrific, and I spent much time on the rear vestibule with the sleeper at the end of the train.  Did not know at the time of the Billy Graham connection, although it is certainly possible that there was some connection with my work at the Boston Crusade(s) and the work at the amphiteatre.

The sleeper, if I remember correctly, was a regular 1--and-6, and I do not remember which train it was handled on south of Washington.  Someone with OGs of the period can answer.

The Retreat was also a beautiful spot.

[wanswheel]

 

Excerpt from WSOC-TV  http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/rev-billy-grahams-processional-route-best-places-to-watch/705177686  The late Rev. Billy Graham will make a trip back to his hometown of Charlotte on Saturday, and he will pass by a few places that had a special meaning to him in his life…The processional will pass through the intersections of West State Street and Highway 9 where Town Hardware, formerly Black Mountain Drugstore, is located. Billy and Ruth Graham used to visit the drugstore often. Billy Graham often rode his horse there from their home in Montreat which is a little more than 2 miles away. Just behind Town Hardware, Cherry Street becomes a dead end at the railroad tracks where the Black Mountain train station used to be. In the 1950s, Billy Graham often boarded trains to Washington or New York at the Black Mountain train station, then flew out from one of those cities to preach internationally.

[wanswheel]

 

“By the time I left on the train for New York on May 9, I felt in the best physical and spiritual shape I had been in for a long time.”

https://books.google.com/books?id=jHMgQPsy2N8C&pg=PA306&dq=%22by+the+time+i+left+on+the+train+for+new+york%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgka-fy7zZAhWCzlkKHQw9C4EQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=%22by%20the%20time%20i%20left%20on%20the%20train%20for%20new%20york%22&f=false

https://billygrahamlibrary.org/this-date-in-history-billy-graham-preaches-at-yankee-stadium/

Billy rode a train in Korea, he said. His autobiography has him on many trains.

https://books.google.com/books?id=jHMgQPsy2N8C&pg=PA197&dq=%22i+had+never+been+so+weary%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFxP7M1LzZAhXJzlkKHfsMA-4Q6AEIPjAE#v=onepage&q=%22i%20had%20never%20been%20so%20weary%22&f=false

https://billygrahamlibrary.org/tag/vietnam-war/

Billy in Vietnam

https://stream.org/billy-graham/

https://woub.org/2018/02/21/americas-pastor-billy-graham-dies-99/

[wanswheel]

Thanks David. I was careful to put relevant items. There's a train in each video and 2 of the photographs, and there can be no possible doubt of the railroad-relatedness of Madison Square Garden, which had a subway station in Billy Graham's day. Anyone as old and as well-traveled as he had to be railroad-related passengerwise, and sure enough he rode the SP Lark and some kind of Chief in the video.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/ind_1937.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden_(1879)

http://www.vintag.es/2012/10/vintage-photos-of-beautiful-buildings.html

[daveklepper]

David Lassen:  He did use trains, the thread recounts his use of trains, and he is a famous person.  Just because his occupation involves religion, there is no reason to exclude comments on him, in my humble opinion.  Let us not promote Secularism as a State Religion for this website, please! 

Boston Garden, a huge indoor sports and convention arena, does or did occupy most of the North Station building, nearly the whole space above the Boston and Maine concourse and ticket area, now the MBTA North Region commuter service.  One of the Billy Graham's successful crusades took place there, and I designed and operated the temporary sound system for it, for my then employer Bolt Beranek and Newman.   Billy Graham had excellent microphone technique and it was a pleasure to work with him.

On another occasion, the crusade took place in the Public Garden off Tremont Street and Boylston Streets. with the congregation's seating area including the site of the orginal ramp, 1898, to the present Green Line Subway, ramp filled in and grassed, when the ramp was relocated in the middle of Boylston Street, where it remained until the Huntington Avenue Subway was opened in 1941.  I designed and operated that sound system in the Public Garden also, for BBN.   All this was in the late 1950s and/or 1960s.  And possibly one or the other was repeated with the same format.

To give credit, Lake Systems provided the equipment and the installation and removal crews, and I worked very closely with them.  At BBN, possibly an MIT Graduate student on loan, Douglass Steele, also helped me if my memory is correct. He may have also operated the sound system for parts of the program.

[David Lassen]

I actually thought about not allowing it for exactly that reason, but since we had a News Wire item about Graham, I figured a tenuous connection was good enough.

[tdmidget]

Quite a stretch to make that railroad related.

[samfp1943]

 

edblysard

Had to be in his nineties?

 

He was 99 and his birthday (100th) was to be in this coming November...

[edblysard]

He did the Dome here once upon a time....

[edblysard]

Had to be in his nineties?

[wanswheel]

https://billygrahamlibrary.org/1957-new-york-crusade/

https://archive.org/stream/billygrahamthepe007977mbp#page/n59

https://www.gettyimages.com/license/104422750

http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/DoSearch?index=z&databaseID=968&terms=0000054922