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A question from a Railfan to those who work in the industry.

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A question from a Railfan to those who work in the industry.
Posted by IbanezGuiness on Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:18 AM

I do service work in people's homes for a living, which takes me all around my local area. I usually bring my lunch with me every day and eat in my van, and I often get some time between jobs while waiting for a customer, or at times I need to send/respond to emails, or make phone calls, my work van is basically a mobile office. Being a railfan, and because a UP Mainline runs right through my area, if possible I often park near the tracks while eating lunch or when doing work related things in my van. I am always careful never to park on rail property or get in anybodies way. One location I sometimes use is a parking lot right across from the tracks and I have permission from the owner who is a customer of mine to park there. I do keep a camera with me and if I see something interesting I sometimes jump out and take a picture.

Yesterday when I got back to the store I work for the manager called me in, said they had a call from the UP police saying they often see my van, that looks suspicious, parked next to the tracks at various locations with a large camera (DSLR) sitting on the dash. My van does not have markings or a phone number on it so apparently they ran the plates to see who it belonged to. They also told my manager that they were considering calling the local Sheriff's office about this "incident". The person that called left a phone number so I asked if I could call back and I did. I explained what I was doing and simply asked if that was "OK" which I was told yes. I even gave them my personal phone number and said if anyone wanted to ask me any other questions feel free to call me. 

I'm probably making more of this that is needed, but it really has bothered me that they did this. I realize they need to be on the lookout for someone trying to do harm, but I would think it was pretty obvious what I was doing. A while back I did have someone in a Hi-Rail truck drive over to me and ask what I was doing, and I simply said I was eating my lunch, then going to do some paperwork and watch some trains while doing it. He was very nice and said, OK just be careful and drove off. 

Am I really being that much of a nuisance to rail crews and employees? I don't want to be that guy who yells "I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE HERE!!!", that just makes it worse for everyone. But I really don't think I'm doing anything wrong. 

Would appreciate your thoughts. 

 

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Posted by diningcar on Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:33 PM

Don't know about UP but BNSF has "Friends of BNSF" for those who wish to do what you are doing. They solicit the "Friends" to report anything dangerous or suspicious. They also send the "Friends" info from time to time and an annual BNSFcalendar. To join they have some requirements and rules.

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Posted by IbanezGuiness on Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:34 PM

Wow, thanks I had not heard of that. Do you know how to join? I do railfan the BNSF from time to time but don't have any lines local. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:23 PM

Remember the Western World is now in a 'See something -  Say something' mode.

Field railroaders are constantly reminded to look for things that are 'out of the ordinary' or suspecious and to report those observations to the company property protection department (Railroad Police).  

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:33 PM

I think I ducked police scrutiny once because a crew though I was a signal maintainer (white truck, light bar).

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, February 15, 2018 3:53 PM

A good rule of thumb if you're railfanning: don't let anyone see you. I purposely park in a public lot and make sure train crews can't see me. It's for their own good as well as mine as I don't wish to be a distraction to people who are going about their work. And I don't want any BS reports about "some suspicious menacing looking guy" standing alone in the woods. Doesn't take much to get into trouble these days. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:55 PM

IbanezGuiness
Am I really being that much of a nuisance to rail crews and employees?

 

I'm not one who works in the industry, so I hope my  choice to reply does not offend you, but take a moment to look and see if there might be an even bigger picture than you imagine?

You may have crossed someone's radar not because you look like a "bad guy", but because you might appear to them to be one of the  field observers working for the railroad looking for rules and  proceedures violations among the rank and file...aka a snitch in the weeds. 

Even the railroad police answer to their superiors, and you might just have them a little paranoid.

Just something to think about.

 

 

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Posted by zardoz on Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:53 PM

About 15 years ago, I was sitting in a public park that borders the CN mainline. My little Ford Ranger was bright red, and I had my camera mounted on a tripod for when a train arrived, and had my scanner on. It was a really nice sunny day, and visibility in the park exrtended about 1/4 mile in every direction (except down).

Soon Barney Fife arrived, pulled up next to me and asked me (I kid you not), "What are you doing?"  I had all I could do to keep a straight face as I nicely replied, "Taking train pictures". Because I had my scanner on, I knew it was not a train crew that called about me. 

I'm sure he ran my plates, and found them to be lacking in excitement. He eventually went away, but he sure was a major buzz-kill!

Anyway, in regards to the original poster, it sure sounds to me like you were completely within your (fast-evaporating) rights. Unfortunately, one cannot protest to the person(s) who are impinging on those rights. All we can do is nonchalantly get the cop's badge number and protest to a higher authority. Better yet, these days it is a good idea to not only have a dash-cam, but also a body camera.

And as far as you bothering train crews, I was an Engineer for over 25 years, so I have a fairly good idea as to what constitutes 'incorrect' behavior on or near the right-of-way. Regardless, you weren't even near the tracks!!

 

No matter how paranoid you are, you are not paranoid enough.

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:04 PM

You are getting reported because you appeared to be "on or near" railroad property. Train crews, cops, M/W employees, locals and even landowners don't generally know where the line is. (and the local county assessor and GIS people certainly don'tMischief) The cops, special agents and the locomotive crews are doing their job. In the age of Homeland Security and a surplus of free-range nut-jobs, it's a fact of life.

Surveyors have all kinds of stories related to that (and then there are the functional illiterates that think a total station (or digital scanner) is a video camera). If people continue to be stupid nosy around us, we've been known to tell them we're putting in a Wal-Mart and watch how far the stupid meter gets pegged and for how long before they go away - hopefully embarrassed after falsely stirring up the 'hood.Clown

Thank the cop for doing his job and move on.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by zardoz on Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:30 PM

mudchicken

You are getting reported because you appeared to be "on or near" railroad property. 

But Muddy, he said he was in a parking lot, which if I remember correctly, is a place designed to be accessible to the public, regardless if it is adjacent to the r-o-w.

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Posted by IbanezGuiness on Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:43 PM

I was parked on the edge of a very seldom used farm road that runs along side the tracks the day this happened. I'm either in a parking lot or out of the way off the side of a road. I'm never on railroad property. 

 

There was a Hi-Rail truck that went by on the rails then came back and got off at the crossing for this road that day. After he got off the tracks he was parked on the road for quite a while. He was still there when I left, I waved as I passsed but he didn't wave back, he was probably the one that started it all. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:17 PM

[quote user="IbanezGuiness"]There was a Hi-Rail truck that went by on the rails then came back and got off at the crossing for this road that day. After he got off the tracks he was parked on the road for quite a while. He was still there when I left, I waved as I passsed but he didn't wave back, he was probably the one that started it all. [/quote]

Go over and introduce yourself.  Railroaders may bark but most don't bite.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:53 PM

and?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:57 PM

BaltACD
Go over and introduce yourself.  Railroaders may bark but most don't bite.

Many years ago at our watch site, a Hi-Rail stopped right at our crossing.  

I jumped out of Millie and went over to ask him some simple question.  He was standing up and kept taking a step backward like he was going to run down the street.  He was so tongue-tied, I never did get an answer.  

I don't even want to imagine what he thought - but I really wanted conversation, not a date!

If my driver (husband) would have gotten out to ask, would he have reacted the same?  I was teaching the driver about trains, so he had no idea what to ask.

We really need to start admitting women to some of the same world that men live in.....

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Friday, February 16, 2018 12:03 AM

zardoz
No matter how paranoid you are, you are not paranoid enough.

As they saying goes: "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

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Posted by Enzoamps on Friday, February 16, 2018 12:29 AM

You have every right to sit in a public parking lot, yes.  You are innocently taking pictures, eating your lunch and hanging out doing nothing.  Now if a terrorist or anarchist wants to blow up a train or the tracks, what do they look like when casing the place?  They sit some place public, they take pictures, they eat their lunch, and they sit around.  Maybe there is infidelity at home, and a guy is watching for the railroader boyfriend seeing his wife.   He waits, takes pictures, eats lunch and hangs out.

In other words in this day and age, people of any intentions, good or bad, pretty much all look the same. And when we have stories of some guy shooting up a school once a week, and people ask, "Why didn't anyne say anything before?", we can't really complain when someone says something.

If you see a plain van parked across from your house on the public street a lot, and a guy is taking photos, eating lunch, and hanging out, do you think you better check it out, or do you think "Oh gee, he has a right to be on the public street?"

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Posted by PennsyBoomer on Friday, February 16, 2018 12:35 AM

I worked on the RR most of my life, have spent many hrs. along the right of way and have seen the paranoia level increase over the years with employees being taught to be suspicious, especially after events of 9/11. I've been approached on many occasions and often didn't disclose my employee status. That said, I've generally found everyone reasonable. After all, if I am on public property I have as much right to insist upon my freedom as a company does to insist upon no tresspassing; and it sounds as if your actions were completely responsible. It's pretty obvious to most that an individual with a camera rather than spray paint cans or rifle isn't looking to disturb the peace. This is an opaque line and some see it more clearly than others. Unfortunately the actions of a few rotten eggs in the news does much to disparage the societal contract of an assumption of decency. I wouldn't blame you for yelling, but sometimes going with flow can have its own beneficial effect in establishing constructive perceptions.  

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:10 AM

The key, if challenged, is to remain calm and civil.  Getting your dander up only raises the dander on the person who is challenging you.

Acknowledge their concern - that you understand "see something, say something," and maybe add that if you see something suspicious, you'll be the first to call.

There are plenty of stories around of law enforcement bullies who are more interested in throwing their weight around than getting their facts straight.  Don't escalate.  If you can, wait for a later date and straighten them out then.

If you are truly in the wrong, admit it, apologize, and scoot.

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, February 16, 2018 4:25 PM

Active railroader till Cinco De Mayo 2016....do just as Larry says, some cops like to be right even when they are wrong...wait till you can talk to their boss, no picture is worth a night in jail.

23 17 46 11

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, February 16, 2018 5:40 PM

edblysard

Active railroader till Cinco De Mayo 2016....do just as Larry says, some cops like to be right even when they are wrong...wait till you can talk to their boss, no picture is worth a night in jail.

 

Posted by tree68 on Friday, February 16, 2018 [said,in part:]

 

"The key, if challenged, is to remain calm and civil.  Getting your dander up only raises the dander on the person who is challenging you."

 

Acknowledge their concern - that you understand "see something, say something," and maybe add that if you see something suspicious, you'll be the first to call.

There are plenty of stories around of law enforcement bullies who are more interested in throwing their weight around than getting their facts straight.  Don't escalate."

Both, Larry and Ed, offer excelent advice!    It is better to keep your powder dry, and live to fight in a venue that you will have some chance....An encounter, such as you derscribe cannot end well for you....Officers are trained to react when confronted, and things can only end badly for the one confronted.   Sigh 

Pick wisely the mountain you choose to die on.Huh?

 

 


 

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