This is just pure speculation. The fact of the matter is that this could very well be the best thing that could happen to the customers on and off thee lines. Certainly a shortline or regional is going to give much better service than any Class 1 could do, and if they sell off bridge routes (i.e. Clinchfield) it could very well give industries an excellent choice and variety of routes. Competition is good.
SALfan Deggesty And, I presume that the Bowline is also single track still. Does it have CTC or is it dark? I believe it is dark. I know it is almost completely jointed rail. You didn't ask, but the Baldwin to Pensacola line is signaled from Baldwin to Tallahassee.
Deggesty And, I presume that the Bowline is also single track still. Does it have CTC or is it dark?
And, I presume that the Bowline is also single track still. Does it have CTC or is it dark?
I believe it is dark. I know it is almost completely jointed rail. You didn't ask, but the Baldwin to Pensacola line is signaled from Baldwin to Tallahassee.
I have a faulty? memory that the SAL took ABS from another line and installed it between Baldwin and Tallahassee.
Johnny
Since some other railroads have had some success with directional running, are there places where CSX could benefit from this? I believe the CSX CEO made a comment of trying it out.
blue streak 1 kgbw49 If CSX is moving to the Iron Triangle concept (utilizing the Lineville Sub on the western north-south leg) and secondary trains on secondary lines branching off the Iron Triangle, why would they not send blocks of NOLA traffic up from Jacksonville to Lagrange and then drop blocks there to be picked up and be hauled to NOLA? First the section of Lineville sub that would be used is that east portion from LaGrange - Manchester. Then Fitzgerald sub toward Jacksonville. LaGrange could not be used as an interchange point unless much money is spent. The Lineville sub and A&WP subs only join as 2 MT for about 2-1/2 miles. Many times one track is taken with a train waiting to get on any of the 4 outward direction points all single tracks to clear onto the other of the 2 MTs.. No easy access for southbound A&WP trains to the ACL yard. The old ACL yard is only accessed from beyond the north intersection of the 2 subs by trains shoving west back into yard. OK for NOL - JAX traffic but not reverse direction. So trying to rebuild the yard for better availability would take many dollars. There is an abandoned acute angle bridge over the 2 MT section that CSX was pushing for the planned replacement bridge to allow 4 tracks, It is unknown if any resolution has been done due to the acute angle ? That bridge is about 1/3 of way along side of present ACL yard. Another 90 degree 5 lane bridge about 3/4 miles further south. Just not enough room to store interchange cars of any length. Although there is room between the yard and the 2 MTs for 5 or 6 yard tracks about various lengths max 3/4 miles long unless some old abandoned mills are purchased.
kgbw49 If CSX is moving to the Iron Triangle concept (utilizing the Lineville Sub on the western north-south leg) and secondary trains on secondary lines branching off the Iron Triangle, why would they not send blocks of NOLA traffic up from Jacksonville to Lagrange and then drop blocks there to be picked up and be hauled to NOLA?
If CSX is moving to the Iron Triangle concept (utilizing the Lineville Sub on the western north-south leg) and secondary trains on secondary lines branching off the Iron Triangle, why would they not send blocks of NOLA traffic up from Jacksonville to Lagrange and then drop blocks there to be picked up and be hauled to NOLA?
The only CSX Inspection train that I personally ever saw results from was one that originated at Birmingham, operated over the Lineville Sub to Manchester and turned onto the Fitzgerald Sub to Waycross and then onto Jacksonville.
Train departed B'ham OT and made Manchester OT. Departing Manchester it got to follow 5 (count them 5) freight trains South on the Fitzgerald Sub. There was no opportunity to put the Inspection train around any of the 5 leading trains account all sidings on the sub containing Northbound trains. The 5 freights had the 'normal amount' of trouble, Hot Box Detector activation here, Undesired Emergency brake application there, Stop & Flag a highway crossing, a track circuit left on behind a train - all the ordinary proplems. All 6 trains ended up needing to be recrewed before the Inspection Train arrived Waycross at 0400 - Trainmaster reported all occupants of the train deserted the train for highway transportation like rats leaving a sinking ship. This all happened on Friday.
Monday moring a change to the Operating Plan was put in effect and 3 schedules in each direction were moved from the Linville-Fitzgerald routing to operating over the Bow Line & S&NA South between Waycross and Birmingham.
The Lineville and Fitzgerald Subs are still single track today - they have had some additional capacity added to them since the time of that Inspection Train, but they are still single track railroads and subject to gridlock with too much traffic.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
If CSX is moving to the Iron Triangle concept (utilizing the Lineville Sub on the western north-south leg) and secondary trains on secondary lines branching off the Iron Triangle, why would they not send blocks of NOLA traffic up from Jacksonville to Lagrange and then drop blocks there to be picked up and be hauled to NOLA? (And vice versa for NOLA traffic bound for Jacksonville.) This method of operation is not unusual under PSR.
In theory, that might allow for a shortline spinoff of Pensacola to Baldwin trackage as has been surmised previously in this thread.
Comments from a friend who is still employed at CSX
As I mentioned before, CSX laid off/fired 4,000 Employees, has put over 1,000 locomotives and 20,000 Freight Cars in Storage, shuttered yards, terminals and Intermodal facilities and “somehow” it’s still costing more to run this railroad. Precision Scheduled Railroading is nothing but a scam for the Corporate Raiders! Let me put the question to you this way. If Precision Scheduled Railroading was the best working model to run a railroad, don’t you think every railroad & company in the world would use this model? CN & CP showed it was a complete failure and now that other people have gotten in and turned things around; they need more locomotives, freight cars, manpower, more infrastructure to handle the increase in traffic, etc! Just think, we could have started the Howard Street Tunnel project and worked on Boone Tunnel in Philly at the same time and had the I-95 corridor Double Stacked within the next 2-3 Years! The Intermodal facility in Rocky Mount would already be in the construction phase, but under the Corporate Raider regime we don’t want any of it! These people don’t want the business or to even run a railroad, they just want to dip into the cash reserves, screw everyone and run!
I'm not so sure that inability to "repurpose" would be the ultimate kiss of death. Some of these lines would have a pretty significant revenue stream, of the sort "patient" money just loves.
Sometimes all it takes is an individual with exceptional vision to seize opportunity invisible to the rest of us.
Convicted One Perhaps all the rail lines might end up belonging to REITs, ...
Perhaps all the rail lines might end up belonging to REITs, ...
REITs want to own real estate that they can put in use to create maximum return. There are too many restrictions on owning rail lines that would limit their options on putting the rail property to other uses.
tree68Did someone mention "open access?"
I seriously considered doing exactly that, with an off hand reference to Futuremodal, but hit the {SUBMIT} button before I should have
Convicted OnePerhaps all the rail lines might end up belonging to REITs, all rolling stock and locomotives belonging to leasing companies, and road crews working for open shop specialty contractors whose territories, as small as a crew district in some instances, or as large as current divisions in others, are put out to bid periodically. Paying the REIT's by the ton-mile for the distance they travel.
Did someone mention "open access?"
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
XOTOWERThey are in business to run trains. If they do their business well they might make a profit. It never works to do anything "for the money."
The railroad corporations of the 21st Century are in the business to make money, they view the costs of operating trains and servicing customers as a drain to the corporations bottom line.
This is similar to 21st Century race car engineers viewing the driver as the impedement to the brilliance of their designs - just 60-80 Kilos of dead weight in their grand designs.
They are in business to run trains. If they do their business well they might make a profit. It never works to do anything "for the money."
28 hour days...6 days in a week...
Norm48327r rational thoughts
Could this divesture possibly be a harbinger of an entirely new business model for the big class ones where CSX, NS, UP, etc will not even own rail lines or equipment but only be a service company at the end of an 800 number that will broker deals between subcontractors to arrange shipment by rail?
Perhaps all the rail lines might end up belonging to REITs, all rolling stock and locomotives belonging to leasing companies, and road crews working for open shop specialty contractors whose territories, as small as a crew district in some instances, or as large as current divisions in others, are put out to bid periodically. Paying the REIT's by the ton-mile for the distance they travel.
Under such an arrangement the special value CSX, or the others, would provide would be to connect the dots between a customer's stated points of origin and destination. Just something to ponder
jeffhergert BaltACD The great unkonwn in all the turmoil is what Cindy Sanborn may or may not be putting together. I may be wrong, but I had heard she was the largest individual investor in CSX with only institutional investors having larger stakes. Cindy Sanborn is going to be a UP Regional Vice President. https://www.up.com/media/releases/180126-cindy-sanborn.htm Jeff
BaltACD The great unkonwn in all the turmoil is what Cindy Sanborn may or may not be putting together. I may be wrong, but I had heard she was the largest individual investor in CSX with only institutional investors having larger stakes.
The great unkonwn in all the turmoil is what Cindy Sanborn may or may not be putting together. I may be wrong, but I had heard she was the largest individual investor in CSX with only institutional investors having larger stakes.
Cindy Sanborn is going to be a UP Regional Vice President.
https://www.up.com/media/releases/180126-cindy-sanborn.htm
Jeff
I guess she will no longer be keeping her CSX Engineers Certification active.
rdamon When the people who make the decisions heavily compensated for quarterly or annual performance, you will get a quarterly or annual vision. Just watch out for the Duke brothers for the FCOJ reports... :)
Just watch out for the Duke brothers for the FCOJ reports... :)
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
As part of my investments, I have bought both NS & UP stock. I was planning to buy BNSF but Mr. Buffet preempted me. I made my decision to buy NS after observing how well they maintained their track after I rode behind 611 and saw the ROW's condition. Similarly with the UP. I also considered how they operated. I didn't like the number of slow orders I saw on the CSX system. But it can be hard to judge unless you see a lot of area. I still read too many negatives about CSX. UP had its Houston meltdown after merging with SP. NS & CSX had issues while digesting Conrail but that might have been to be expected. I expect the new tax rules should improve the earnings and I have hopes the stock will gain in value. NS recently increased the dividend. I anticipate the others will also increase theirs within the year. Whether they will flow any of the tax benefits through to their employees (ala Starbucks) is doubtful.
http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blogs/frank-n-wilner/csx-stb-and-confusion-to-the-enemy%E2%80%9D.html?channel=00
rdamon
So then, what we see is that small time investors who are unhappy with the direction Mantle Ridge is presently taking the company, are in fact not captive victims of any stategy beyond their control, and can sell at an escape price more likely than not to be greater than their personal outlay? Doesn't sound like the golden-years stockholders have been victimized just yet?
Or, of course, some might prefer to stay in the game, but all have that choice as of now.....
Convicted One tree68 I agree that a diversified portfolio is best - but what's going on with CSX makes it hard to believe that any industry can be stable enouigh to invest in. Before we shed too many tears for the "abused" golden age stockholders of CSX, answer one quastion for me. At what point in time was the value of CSX stock at it's absolute highest?
tree68 I agree that a diversified portfolio is best - but what's going on with CSX makes it hard to believe that any industry can be stable enouigh to invest in.
Before we shed too many tears for the "abused" golden age stockholders of CSX, answer one quastion for me. At what point in time was the value of CSX stock at it's absolute highest?
What was the value of PRR & NYC stock shortly prior to the PC merger? Memory (which mine is falible) thinks that both companies were declaring profits and dividends prior to the merger. Book cooking can show virtually anything management wants it to show - until there is absolutely nothing of value left.
tree68I agree that a diversified portfolio is best - but what's going on with CSX makes it hard to believe that any industry can be stable enouigh to invest in.
Quoting tree68: "Of course, there's always orange juice futures." As in the movie "Trading Places'?
runnerdude48It always amazes me that so many railfans think that railroads are in business to run trains rather than make a profit for the owners.
I think that extends beyond railfans.
It's my take that there is making a profit, then there is making a profit.
A long term investor is looking for a nice, stable company that will provide stable growth and be there down the road. They certainly want the company to make a profit so it can continue to grow and pay dividends.
The short term investors want their profits NOW, the future be danged. If they can't wring anything else out of a company, they'll take their money elsewhere.
And there lies the difference.
I agree that a diversified portfolio is best - but what's going on with CSX makes it hard to believe that any industry can be stable enouigh to invest in.
Of course, there's always orange juice futures...
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