Trains.com

News Wire: Jurors acquit railroaders in Lac-Mégantic trial

4093 views
45 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
Moderator
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Wisconsin
  • 1,532 posts
Posted by Brian Schmidt on Friday, January 19, 2018 1:42 PM

SHERBROOKE, Quebec — Not guilty. Jurors in the criminal trial of three railroaders charged in the deaths of 47 people acquitted the three Canadian men Friday afternoon. Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reports that the jury of eight men and four w...

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/01/19-lac-megantic

Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Friday, January 19, 2018 2:11 PM

I could see it looming.  The longer the deliberations, and with knowing which types of clarification or definition the jury sought from the judge a few days back, they were struggling with what a reasonable person would do under similar circumstances and with the indoctrination and culture to which they had been exposed.  The jury decided nobody intended malice, and that nobody was deliberately negligent or wilfully contravened established norms/practices.

There will be much anger and many tears over this decision.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, January 19, 2018 3:00 PM

selector
I could see it looming.  The longer the deliberations, and with knowing which types of clarification or definition the jury sought from the judge a few days back, they were struggling with what a reasonable person would do under similar circumstances and with the indoctrination and culture to which they had been exposed.  The jury decided nobody intended malice, and that nobody was deliberately negligent or wilfully contravened established norms/practices.

There will be much anger and many tears over this decision.

While I agree with your assessment of the virdict.  I believe the jury errored in assuming Harding as a 'reasonable person'.  Harding, as the Engineer and only train service person in charge of the train, has to be presumed to be a Expert in his field and held to a higher level of responsibility than the 'reasonable person'.

The other persons charged had no direct ability to have prevented the incident as they were many miles away and had no ability to touch the equipment and thereby prevent the incident.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Friday, January 19, 2018 3:50 PM

I have had my own anxiety just reading all the postings on the forum.  I think the decision is fair - each man will continue thru their own personal nightmares for the rest of their life.

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Friday, January 19, 2018 3:51 PM
Would Harding know to do anything different than what was done, or was he following accepted practice and procedures?

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, January 19, 2018 4:29 PM

edblysard
Would Harding know to do anything different than what was done, or was he following accepted practice and procedures?

My understanding is that Harding got his Engineers qualification when he was employed by CP.  That being said, I don't know what CP's teachings were on what was required to properly secure trains.  I would presume that CP had more stringent standards than MM&A enforced as evidenced by Harding's runaway on the MM&A.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Matthews NC
  • 363 posts
Posted by matthewsaggie on Friday, January 19, 2018 5:39 PM

A Tired Quote-- "Each man will continue thru their own personal nightmares for the rest of their life".  So will the families of the 47 killed. (don't even think about the fire they were killed in) They will not see any justice in this decision.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Friday, January 19, 2018 5:45 PM

matthewsaggie

A Tired Quote-- "Each man will continue thru their own personal nightmares for the rest of their life".  So will the families of the 47 killed. (don't even think about the fire they were killed in) They will not see any justice in this decision.

 

I think that a lot of the victims and families will see justice in this decision because they hold MM&A management responsible as opposed to the three defendants who were tried.  And while they may not get justice by seeing management on trial, they would not want to see the wrong men pay for the injustice. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 329 posts
Posted by lenzfamily on Friday, January 19, 2018 5:50 PM

BaltACD

 

 
edblysard
Would Harding know to do anything different than what was done, or was he following accepted practice and procedures?

 

My understanding is that Harding got his Engineers qualification when he was employed by CP.  That being said, I don't know what CP's teachings were on what was required to properly secure trains.  I would presume that CP had more stringent standards than MM&A enforced as evidenced by Harding's runaway on the MM&A.

 

Loose or sloppy work cultures can have a corrosive effect on those involved over time, no matter the training. I wonder if that is why targetted safety cultures are (re)introduced over time. A reinforcement of perhaps forgotten or sloppy safety practices and ways of operational thinking.

That said, I would think Mr Harding will carry a heavy burden for the rest of his life, as will the others. I also won't be surprised if more lawsuits are forthcoming from Megantic townspeople. 

Charlie 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, January 19, 2018 6:02 PM

edblysard
Would Harding know to do anything different than what was done, or was he following accepted practice and procedures?

Kinda my take as well.  The key word is "accepted."  Even if the procedure used didn't follow the letter of the rule, it may have been accepted practice.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 2,505 posts
Posted by caldreamer on Friday, January 19, 2018 6:07 PM

A lot of the blame should go to the fire department for shutting down the engine.  They should have known that with no power to keep the brakes set that eventually they would loose braking.  They should have set more hand brakes after shutting down the engine to prevent a runaway.

I am glad that at least the engineer, Mr. Harding was aquitted.  I feel that he was being made a scape goat for the failures of other persons.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, January 19, 2018 6:14 PM

caldreamer
A lot of the blame should go to the fire department for shutting down the engine. They should have known that with no power to keep the brakes set that eventually they would loose braking.

Respectfully disagree. Although one of our posters here is both an engineer and a volunteer firefighter, just how much training would you believe small volunteer fire departments in very rural areas have regarding securing a train.

Norm


  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, January 19, 2018 6:19 PM

caldreamer
A lot of the blame should go to the fire department for shutting down the engine.

Nope.  Absolutely not.  Unless they've been trained by the railroad in how they secure their trains, the firefighters would have absolutely no clue.  They apparently had some training (or were told by someone at the time - I forget now) that enabled them to shut down the locomotive.

Even if they did have training on how the railroad secured trains, it probably would have been by the book - which I am surmising would have involved setting the handbrakes on numerous cars in the consist.  If that were the case, they absolutely would not have known that only the independent brakes on the locomotive and handbrakes on two other cars were holding the train.  Their assumption would have been that there were enough other brakes set to hold the train.  

When a couple of cars got away at a military installation near me, one individual jumped onto the cars just as they began to move - but he had no idea how to set the handbrake.  If he had, there would not have been a runaway.

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Friday, January 19, 2018 7:03 PM

caldreamer

A lot of the blame should go to the fire department for shutting down the engine.  They should have known .....

 

 
They did not know, nor should they be expected to know.  The railroad was notified of the situation, and had a person at the scene.  The fire department
would naturally assume the railroader was a suitable person to do whatever might be necessary, unaware that a track person might not be any more qualified than them.
 
Two big contributing factors were 1)insufficient handbrakes, and 2) instructing Mr.Harding to take his rest instead of going back to Nantes to check on the train, relying on the track person who had been at the scene.
 
I think the verdict is probably appropriate.  Those who think the accused got off scot-free ignore the months of hell waiting for and the trial itself, and also that they will be living with permanent memory knowing what each should have done that night and prevented the tragedy.
  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: South Dakota
  • 1,592 posts
Posted by Dakguy201 on Friday, January 19, 2018 7:21 PM

I think many people who have walked past an engine on the way to/from their car have a good idea of how to shut it down.

It seems to me that this method of (inadequate) securement probably was common practice on this line.  Otherwise, the new crew would have noticed a difference between Harding secured trains and those of others, and reported it to someone.

 

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Friday, January 19, 2018 7:30 PM

matthewsaggie

A Tired Quote-- "Each man will continue thru their own personal nightmares for the rest of their life".  So will the families of the 47 killed. (don't even think about the fire they were killed in) They will not see any justice in this decision.

 

Justice: The system works.  You can't bring any one of those people that died, back to life.  There is so much injustice in our lives, you can't rectify it by incarcerating people constantly.  There has to be a time when the justice system works and we quit jailing everyone.  No one can ever know what the lives will be like for these men with an innocent verdict.  A jail is stone/mortar.  Some people will live in their own jail.  Just be glad you didn't do something carelessly and someone died.  That's a heavy burden for anyone to carry.  

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Friday, January 19, 2018 8:29 PM

From the linked article: "When the prosecution rested in December, the defendants announced that they would not present any evidence or witnesses." 

Gutsy move.  What it means is that even with the jury giving maximum credibility to all the evidence the prosecution presented - none of which was rebutted by opposing testimony or other evidence - the prosecution still didn't prove its case.  Roughly the same as the O.J. Simpson verdict (for those who remember it).

- PDN.  

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, January 19, 2018 8:39 PM

caldreamer
A lot of the blame should go to the fire department for shutting down the engine.  They should have known that with no power to keep the brakes set that eventually they would loose braking.  They should have set more hand brakes after shutting down the engine to prevent a runaway.

I am glad that at least the engineer, Mr. Harding was aquitted.  I feel that he was being made a scape goat for the failures of other persons.

Where Fire Departments get any form of training from the carriers - the first thing the FD's are instructed to do when they encounter a locomotive fire is to activate the Emergency Fuel Shutoff.  FD's are not trained railroaders and should not have to concern themselves as to a train without crew aboard has been properly secured.

Fire Departments put out fires.  Railroad employees SECURE trains.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, January 19, 2018 8:42 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
From the linked article: "When the prosecution rested in December, the defendants announced that they would not present any evidence or witnesses." 

Gutsy move.  What it means is that even with the jury giving maximum credibility to all the evidence the prosecution presented - none of which was rebutted by opposing testimony or other evidence - the prosecution still didn't prove its case.  Roughly the same as the O.J. Simpson verdict (for those who remember it).

- PDN.  

I suspect it also means that the Defense felt it has done a more than adequate job of shredding the prosecutions evidence and statements on cross.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Friday, January 19, 2018 8:42 PM

caldreamer

A lot of the blame should go to the fire department for shutting down the engine.  They should have known that with no power to keep the brakes set that eventually they would loose braking.  They should have set more hand brakes after shutting down the engine to prevent a runaway.

I am glad that at least the engineer, Mr. Harding was aquitted.  I feel that he was being made a scape goat for the failures of other persons.

 

Nope, no more than you know how to launch a Apollo moon flight or I know how to fly an airplane…they fight fires, not secure trains.

 
Harding was trained a given way, to do a certain number of things in a certain manner…wrong maybe, but he did what he was trained to do, no more, or less. 

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Friday, January 19, 2018 8:52 PM

BaltACD

 

 
edblysard
Would Harding know to do anything different than what was done, or was he following accepted practice and procedures?

 

My understanding is that Harding got his Engineers qualification when he was employed by CP.  That being said, I don't know what CP's teachings were on what was required to properly secure trains.  I would presume that CP had more stringent standards than MM&A enforced as evidenced by Harding's runaway on the MM&A.

 

I was trained on the PTRA, but if I went to work on the UP, I most likely be expected or would do things their way, yes?

 
So, if you can prove Harding thought or knew the train had an chance of running away, you might have a different verdict…but if all you prove is that he did what was required of him, even if that was not good enough, then under or legal system he is innocent.

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Friday, January 19, 2018 9:04 PM

Houston Ed:  I should have you write my narratives for me.  They seem to understand you, while I seem to be speaking Venutian....which would be right, wouldn't it...?

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 2,671 posts
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, January 20, 2018 9:36 AM

I am kind of surprised that they did not acquit two of them, but convict Harding of unsafe operation of railway equipment.

Going forward, it seems to me that despite the percieved health of the engines (even if they seem perfect), by rule at least two engines should always be left running if air brakes are needed. Any machine can fail. If only one engine is in use on a train, the hand brake requirements should be much more robust, with the assumption that one air-compressor could suddenly become none.

BTW, I have read that Harding still faces some charges; but I've not been able to find more details/explanation on this.

Still in training.


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:00 AM

LithoniaOperator

I am kind of surprised that they did not acquit two of them, but convict Harding of unsafe operation of railway equipment.

Going forward, it seems to me that despite the percieved health of the engines (even if they seem perfect), by rule at least two engines should always be left running if air brakes are needed. Any machine can fail. If only one engine is in use on a train, the hand brake requirements should be much more robust, with the assumption that one air-compressor could suddenly become none.

BTW, I have read that Harding still faces some charges; but I've not been able to find more details/explanation on this.

I'm sure Randy Stahl can supply the details of federal charges. OTOH, I believe Harding and his supervisors were working under the assumption that leaving the lone engine running to supply air to the brake system had always been accepted practice so why change the plan.

What I fail to understand is why, when Harding told the dispatcher the engine was "wet-stacking and spitting oil" the dispatcher told him to leave it running as the sole support of air for the brakes.

I can't tell you how many times someone has said to me "We've done it that way for thirty years and it's always worked; why change".

Whether Harding had any malintent is moot. The question facing the jury was whether he broke any laws. Given the verdict it appears he did not.

There is fault enough to go around. It was the typical chain of events that led to the disaster, but it is likely no laws were broken in the process. Best practices were not followed and led to the death of 47 people but that does not make the accused guilty except in public opinion.

Norm


  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:17 AM

I would say that the judge was correct when he said that the Crown had not proven their case.  The question was whether Harding broke the law against criminal negligence.  To find him guilty of that, the prosecution would have had to have introtuded evidence related to what a reasonable person might anticipate in regard to securing the train. 

There is no quesiton that Harding broke the securment rules, but perhaps the prosecution never introduced evidence that Harding was aware of breaking those rules.  If Harding merely forgot the rules or never learned them, that cancels the possiblity of upholding a charge of criminal negligence.  If Harding thought he was properly securing the train, he could not have antipated that he was putting people in danger.  Criminal negligence requires that the defendant was able to anticpate the danger and went ahead anyway, taking the chance. 

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:41 AM

[quote user=

  "Norm48327"]Whether Harding had any malintent is moot.

The question facing the jury was whether he broke any laws.

Given the verdict it appears he did not."

Norm48327, further stated: 'There is fault enough to go around. It was the typical chain of events that led to the disaster, but it is likely no laws were broken in the process. Best practices were not followed and led to the death of 47 people but that does not make the accused guilty except in public opinion."

[/quote]

My only question is :" Under the French code of Napoleonic Law; "is there a protectuion from double jeopardy"?

The whole chain of circumstances in this event seems to bring into focus the old railroader's axiom: [paraphrased] " The GCOR is written in the blood of its rules and regulations."

 

 


 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:49 AM

Euclid
I would say that the judge was correct when he said that the Crown had not proven their case.

That became self evident when the jury was at an impasse. The judge ordered them to continue so they decided "Not guilty" should be the verdict. Any jury worthy of their salt should tell the prosecution they have not sufficiently made their case that the accused violated a  law.

Euclid
There is no quesiton that Harding broke the securment rules

Euclid
There is no quesiton that Harding broke the securment rules,

DId he, or was he following accepted practice that had always worked before? I believe he was simply following orders from above. While that may reflect on the safety culture of the road he worked on did not make him guilty of violating any Canadian law.

I can empatize with the denizens of Lac Megantic. In my lifetime I have lost many friends who died early starting while I was in grade school. Their loss of life at an early age and the effect on me and their parents remains in my mind forever. Rember Polio? Nope, I think you are too young to have been there when it took many lives and affected others.

That said, some things are just beyond our ability to control and to suggest otherwise just emphasises that you have only your own interests in mind.

Time for a reality check.

 

Norm


  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, January 20, 2018 10:55 AM

Sam,

I am not familiar with Canadian law but under the assumption it follows the course of old English law. The exception to that is that under the kings reigns guilty till proven innocent took a serious and needed turn.

Accusations are just that and are not proven accurate until proven in a court of law.

Norm


  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:11 PM

Norm48327
 
Euclid
I would say that the judge was correct when he said that the Crown had not proven their case.

 

That became self evident when the jury was at an impasse. The judge ordered them to continue so they decided "Not guilty" should be the verdict. Any jury worthy of their salt should tell the prosecution they have not sufficiently made their case that the accused violated a  law.

 
Euclid
There is no quesiton that Harding broke the securment rules
 
Euclid
There is no quesiton that Harding broke the securment rules,

 

DId he, or was he following accepted practice that had always worked before? I believe he was simply following orders from above. While that may reflect on the safety culture of the road he worked on did not make him guilty of violating any Canadian law.

I can empatize with the denizens of Lac Megantic. In my lifetime I have lost many friends who died early starting while I was in grade school. Their loss of life at an early age and the effect on me and their parents remains in my mind forever. Rember Polio? Nope, I think you are too young to have been there when it took many lives and affected others.

That said, some things are just beyond our ability to control and to suggest otherwise just emphasises that you have only your own interests in mind.

Time for a reality check.

 

 

Norm,

The last time I checked reality, it was still there. 

My understanding is that Harding failed to set enough handbrakes to hold train without the aid of air brakes.  That is a violation of Rule 112.  He also performed a handbrake effectiveness test with the independent brake set.  That too is a violation of Rule 112.

If Harding was following practice that had worked before, that does not mean that he did not violate Rule 112.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 20, 2018 12:28 PM

In case anyone is intersted in my viewpoint, I have to agree Harding broke Rule 112, which I understand really has the power of law.  I would have ruled guilty for all and recommendation of clemency on the basis of lack of management enforcement of the law and lack of safety culture, with a recommendation for sentence reduced to time served awaiting trial.  The Crown did not have to prove its case because the defendents admitted lack of observance of rule 112 and lack of enforcement by the othe two.   That is my opinion for whatever is worth.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy