Jeff did not mention this, but, particularly in Cab Signal territory, a UP engine must be on the point.
I did not go back to the rear when we were backing in to Denver last fall after running across Wyoming, but I was back there three or four years ago when we backed in to Salt Lake City after running across Wyoming, and the UP conductor was talking the engineer in (when the CZ is detoured around the Rockies, it has to back in westbound and back out eastbound; going through the Rockies, it is a straight forward operation here).
Johnny
Electroliner 1935 jeffhergert Occasionally, Amtrak detours between Omaha and Chicago on the UP when the BNSF is blocked. I've had them a few times. Jeff Jeff, When Amtrak detours via UP, do their people operate the locomotive and you serve as a pilot or do you run the locomotive with or without an Amtrak engineer?
jeffhergert Occasionally, Amtrak detours between Omaha and Chicago on the UP when the BNSF is blocked. I've had them a few times. Jeff
Jeff, When Amtrak detours via UP, do their people operate the locomotive and you serve as a pilot or do you run the locomotive with or without an Amtrak engineer?
UP engineer and conductor in the cab, with the UP guys operating the train. I've had Amtrak engineers ride in the cab and I've had them ride back in the cars. On UP business trains, even when the cars are only being ferried with a mechanical attendent on the cars, we have the equivalent of a road foreman (UP has a different title) ride the engine. Imagine my surprise the first time I got the train when no one, other than my conductor was on the engine with me.
We maintain radio contact with the Amtrak conductor, and twice when starting he got on the radio and said I didn't have to worry about slack like on a freight train. I was starting out slow, not because of slack but because we were close to crossings with lights and gates. We have a UP engine in the lead with the Amtrak power and it's like a jack rabbit taking off. I was going slow to give the gates time to come down.
Jeff
Thanks, Mike, for filling in the gaps that I left. Oh, I would not say that the railroad follows any highway in the area--for the railroad was there before the highways were built. It is true that that the railroad followed some trails--and it did so because of the topography.
My only experience in surface travel in Nebraska is by rail. I did drive east across Wyoming once--moving my new family from Boise to the north end of the AT&N by way of Denver, St. Louis, and Memphis. We had our adventure in moving.
Deggesty Tdub Thanks. Due to the the knowledgable folks on this forum, I am getting my mind around this. So do both UP and BNSF lines both go through Omaha and Lincoln, then BNSF (CB&Q) starts heading southwest towards Denver? While traveling on I-80 just a few days ago, I did notice that very busy UP line north of I-80 heading towards North Platte. And that is the Overland Route. Correct? Thanks to all. Cheers. Tom Tom, I-80 more or less follows the Overland Route from Omaha west; the Overland does not go through Lincoln. The Burlington, in general, stayed away from the UP--and Omaha is not on the freight main of the Burlington's route to Denver; the passenger route goes north from Oreapolis to Omaha and then curves back down to Ashland, adding about 25 miles more than the direct line from Oreapolis to Ashland.
Tdub Thanks. Due to the the knowledgable folks on this forum, I am getting my mind around this. So do both UP and BNSF lines both go through Omaha and Lincoln, then BNSF (CB&Q) starts heading southwest towards Denver? While traveling on I-80 just a few days ago, I did notice that very busy UP line north of I-80 heading towards North Platte. And that is the Overland Route. Correct? Thanks to all. Cheers. Tom
Thanks. Due to the the knowledgable folks on this forum, I am getting my mind around this. So do both UP and BNSF lines both go through Omaha and Lincoln, then BNSF (CB&Q) starts heading southwest towards Denver? While traveling on I-80 just a few days ago, I did notice that very busy UP line north of I-80 heading towards North Platte. And that is the Overland Route. Correct?
Thanks to all.
Cheers.
Tom
Tom, I-80 more or less follows the Overland Route from Omaha west; the Overland does not go through Lincoln. The Burlington, in general, stayed away from the UP--and Omaha is not on the freight main of the Burlington's route to Denver; the passenger route goes north from Oreapolis to Omaha and then curves back down to Ashland, adding about 25 miles more than the direct line from Oreapolis to Ashland.
The part where the UP Overland Route departs from I-80 is west of Omaha to Grand Island, NE, where it follows US-30 (Lincoln Highway) and the Platte River. I-80 ducks down to Lincoln, NE.
West of Laramie, WY, the Overland again parts ways with I-80, where again US-30 more closely follows the rail line. In the Granger area, US-30 heads for Portland, leaving the Overland Route, which continues to follow I-80 to Echo, UT, where the line then follows I-84 to Ogden.
jeffhergertOccasionally, Amtrak detours between Omaha and Chicago on the UP when the BNSF is blocked. I've had them a few times. Jeff
As I recall, the Rio Grande Zephyr was operated until Amtrak began going through the Rockies and not around them. I rode from here to Denver in the spring of 1980. As it was, Amtrak could not begin using the track when it was planned to begin because a landslide obliterated the town of Thistle, and two new tunnels had to be bored through Billy's Mountain.
Eddie Sand When Amtrak was first set up, operating passenger roads were allowed to opt out in return for maintaining service for a specified length of time; the Southern and the Rio Gande opted to do so, so Amtrak's desire to retain Chicago-Oakland / San Francisco service had to involve the obvious choice of the UP/SP Overland Route; However it was decided to continue to use the better-established Burlington service originally inherited to the east of Denver. A curtailed Rio Grande Zephyr continued to operate between Denver and Salt Lake on a six-day-a-week (alternate directions one-way each day) for several years. Rio Grande dropped the service when the mandated operating period ran out. And a few years later, via some complicated financing, little Rio Grande gained contol of the much larger Southern Pacific, and a few years later, the "python that swallowed the horse" was folded into the UP family.
When Amtrak was first set up, operating passenger roads were allowed to opt out in return for maintaining service for a specified length of time; the Southern and the Rio Gande opted to do so, so Amtrak's desire to retain Chicago-Oakland / San Francisco service had to involve the obvious choice of the UP/SP Overland Route; However it was decided to continue to use the better-established Burlington service originally inherited to the east of Denver. A curtailed Rio Grande Zephyr continued to operate between Denver and Salt Lake on a six-day-a-week (alternate directions one-way each day) for several years.
Rio Grande dropped the service when the mandated operating period ran out. And a few years later, via some complicated financing, little Rio Grande gained contol of the much larger Southern Pacific, and a few years later, the "python that swallowed the horse" was folded into the UP family.
I've read that 1975 was the date those railroads that stayed out of Amtrak had to keep operating their intercity passenger service. After that date they could go through the process to discontinue passenger service. The Rock Island also stayed out and ended their intercity trains at the end of 1978.
Occasionally, Amtrak detours between Omaha and Chicago on the UP when the BNSF is blocked. I've had them a few times.
Generally, prepping the berths is done when a train is coming to its destination--the clean sheets are put on then, so that the attendant who takes the next trip out does not have to take of that matter. There probably are some matters that are taken care of before departure, but it seems to me that they are seen to before the train is brought into the station.
One such operation that amazes me was that when the South Wind, City of Miami, and Dixie Flagler left Miami for Chicago the same day that they arrived, there was less than an hour and a half between scheduled arrival and dcheduled departure. That they were all-coch trains may have made it easier, it may be that a separate crew cleaned each car.
The CZ departs from the south side of CUS and stays on the CB&Q main all the way to Denver.
Thank you mudchicken. One last question...maybe. Does the CZ out of Chicago travel on the Overland Route at all? Or does it begin on BNSF rails as soon as it leave Chicago?
Thanks,
Tdub Thanks for the reply Johnny. That cleared up a lot. My wife and I just returned from a road trip to Breckenridge, Colorado yesterday and I noticed an Amtrak train next to route 76 northeast of Denver. I assume that was the CZ on BNSF rails to Chicago (former Burlington Northern, right?) Since we were in darkness on our CZ trip last spring rolling into Denver in the morning I had no idea where we were in relationship to state routes. I did notice many unit coal trains on that track as well. Thanks again. Cheers, Tom
Thanks for the reply Johnny. That cleared up a lot. My wife and I just returned from a road trip to Breckenridge, Colorado yesterday and I noticed an Amtrak train next to route 76 northeast of Denver. I assume that was the CZ on BNSF rails to Chicago (former Burlington Northern, right?) Since we were in darkness on our CZ trip last spring rolling into Denver in the morning I had no idea where we were in relationship to state routes. I did notice many unit coal trains on that track as well.
Thanks again.
Cheers,
...and UP is responsible for the conduct of #5 and #6 over BNSF and UP between Chicago and Emeryville.
...The BNSF Brush, Union (connection to UP Julesburg Sub joint line and the PRB coal mines) and Akron Sub. all come together at East Brush.
Thanks Eddie for the quick reply. That helped tons.
The "original" California Zephyr was a joint effort involving the Burlington, Rio Grande and Western Pacific, and followed the D&RGW's mainline via the Moffat Tunnel, Dotsero Cutoff (not built until 1934) and Soldier Summt In Utah. It was loved by railfans, but operating deficits continued to mount, and it was cut back to a Chicago - Salt Lake City operation in 1970.
That left the entire Chicago - Bay Area route theoretically open to UP operation, but as before, UP saw no reason to add a passenger train to its former C&NW main line acrooss Iowa (better to leave it with the BNSF) , and the light local traffic on the now-mostly-redundant Rio Grande could easily accomodate another move.
UP also rejected use of the Feather River Canyon trackage of the former Western Pacific for service west of Salt Lke City, opting for Reno, Truckee and Donner Summit; so the current routing probably involves more of the original "Transcon", (which has itself been rebuilt and deviated from the original route in many areas) than did the 1949-1970 CZ.
Tdub Hello to all. I have a few questions that I would really appreciate some input from you folks in the know. I apologize in advance for asking so many. 1. Does the Zephyr follow any of the original transcon? My wife and I rode it from Sandusky, Ohio to Emeryville and loved it. It seemed to stay on BNSF trackage from Chicago to Denver. Correct? 2. But after Denver I see it is on UP rails to Salt Lake and beyond. 3. If and when does it return to the origional transcon? I have read quite a bit about the first transcon but never fully understood the route after Sherman Hill. Is that the Zephyr route today? Thanks so much!
Hello to all. I have a few questions that I would really appreciate some input from you folks in the know. I apologize in advance for asking so many. 1. Does the Zephyr follow any of the original transcon? My wife and I rode it from Sandusky, Ohio to Emeryville and loved it. It seemed to stay on BNSF trackage from Chicago to Denver. Correct? 2. But after Denver I see it is on UP rails to Salt Lake and beyond. 3. If and when does it return to the origional transcon? I have read quite a bit about the first transcon but never fully understood the route after Sherman Hill. Is that the Zephyr route today? Thanks so much!
The current California Zephy ordinarily follows,westbound, the route of the original CZ from Chicago to Alazon, Nevada, where it moves to the original Overland Route. Eastbound, it follows the Original Overland Route to Wesco, Nevada, which is just east of Winnemucca and from there it follows the original CZ route. If the Union Pacific is doing trackwork on the former Rio Grande, the train is detoured across Wyoming, going up to Ogden from Salt Lake City and then using the original Overland Route from Ogden to Speer, which is a little west of Cheyenne, and from there down to Denver. On this detour, Sherman Hill is descended or ascended, depending upon the direction of travel.
The different routings in Nevada came about during World War I, when the U.S. Government took control of the railroads. The Southern Pacific (successor to the Central Pacific) and the Western Pacific are more or less parallel between the two points, and the U.S. Railroad Administration did one of the few intelligent things it did do in setting this arrangement up--essentially creating a double track road out of two separate single track roads, and after the railroads were given control of their roads after the war, this arrangement was continued.
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