Any reports on CSX freight service improvement or lack thereof?
Los Angeles Rams GuyAmen CPR Train. That's what I've been trying to say all along.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Ulrich I don't know how EHH's management style influenced safety practices on the railroad... were there more deaths and injuries under his watch than at other railroads?.. under other CEO's? I haven't seen any stats on that. One could argue that his aggressive no nonsense style kept people on their toes.. more alert.. and that his style actually resulted in fewer accidents. I don't know. Let's see some numbers that show deaths and injuries spiked when EHH was in command... that would be the proof... i.e. when EHH ran CN OTJ fatalities went from 3 to 10.. and then when he went to CP fatalities there spiked from 2 per year to 15/ year. Looking at one or two incidents in isolation doesn't prove anything..
I don't know how EHH's management style influenced safety practices on the railroad... were there more deaths and injuries under his watch than at other railroads?.. under other CEO's? I haven't seen any stats on that. One could argue that his aggressive no nonsense style kept people on their toes.. more alert.. and that his style actually resulted in fewer accidents. I don't know. Let's see some numbers that show deaths and injuries spiked when EHH was in command... that would be the proof... i.e. when EHH ran CN OTJ fatalities went from 3 to 10.. and then when he went to CP fatalities there spiked from 2 per year to 15/ year. Looking at one or two incidents in isolation doesn't prove anything..
What I am wondering. EHH abruptly left CP before he and Paul Hilal and Mantle Ridge tried their abortive attempt at NS and the finally CP.
Was there a palace coup forming at CP that would have deposed EHH because of his declining health? Did Bill Ackman have enough of his schtict! I suspect there may have been as the CP Board and Ackman could probably see increasingly erratic decisions emanating from his office. The CP Board most likely didn't want him hanging around long enough to collect his $84M bonus money and the publicity of forcing him out of office would have alerted others to his condition and prevented his employment anywhere else.
There is a whole lot of this story that needs further explanition, but then the dead tell no tales.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
cx500Fatalities on the railroad are a regrettable reality, but in the two cases cited they were a direct result of specific management decisions and that is highly unusual. I think it fair to say most incidents are the result of:
There are those in the fire service who say it's not a matter of if you'll get hurt, but when...
Over the years the definition of a line-of-duty death has morphed to include deaths occuring with 24 hours of an incident, if it can be tied to the incident. Thus a firefighter who returns to the station after a fire and is stricken at the station (or at home) will be considered an LODD. Similarly, motor vehicle accidents enroute to a call are also LODD's.
While the number of firefighter fatalities as a result of "hostile" events at a fire (collapse, etc) has dropped nearly to single digits on average, the number of LODD's has levelled off around 100 nationwide, barring significant (and fortunately rare) events.
This fact isn't always conveyed by those looking to make the fire service safer. While I wouldn't necessarily define it at bending the data to serve a purpose, it definitely looks like that.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The account of an increase in accidents because of fear of a new supervisor reminded me of the account in A Treasury of Railroad Folklore wherein a new supervisor told a crew that if they delivered a certain car they would be on overtime and all overtime was to be cut out. The result in the story was not an accident, but that the railroad was charged for the re-washing of a load of Kosher meat; the charge would have been avoided if the car had been deleivered on time.
Johnny
Fatalities on the railroad are a regrettable reality, but in the two cases cited they were a direct result of specific management decisions and that is highly unusual. I think it fair to say most incidents are the result of:
1)poor decisions or carelessness by operating personnel involved (ie passing a stop signal)
2)unpredictable railroad related events (ie rock slides, broken rails, broken wheels)
3)Third party responsibility, especially grade crossing collisions.
CPR did achieve their first ever fatality-free year quite a while back, I think under Rob Richie. That only happened once in my 35 years with the company. I have no idea if it happened again or under EHH.
For a time CN under EHH claimed a much better safety record than any other Class 1. Curious thing was that the frequency of major incidents was more or less the same as the rest of the industry. Apparently the minor incident ratio looked so much better because if two or less cars derailed those events didn't get counted. The rest of the industry was more honest. Any statistics created by EHH methods need to be treated with suspicion and definitely cannot be directly compared with earlier numbers or standard industry practice.
Ulrich One could argue that his aggressive no nonsense style kept people on their toes.. more alert.. and that his style actually resulted in fewer accidents.
One could argue that his aggressive no nonsense style kept people on their toes.. more alert.. and that his style actually resulted in fewer accidents.
In practice that attitude leads to employees being under a lot more stress while at work, which means they have an additional weight on their mind, which means often less than 100% of their focus is on the task at hand, which leads to more accidents.
I got to see this first hand, one specific period comes to mind. A new trainmaster was assigned to our territory, a person with a very tyrannical, micromanaging personality (almost like a mini-Hunter). In his two month tenure there were half a dozen incidents in the yard, ranging from run-through switches (minor) to a pile-up of dangerous tank cars (major). In the months preceding his arrival there we had almost no incidents, and nothing major, and after he left we returned to that state.
The incidents were all caused by guys hurrying to get the work done and not paying proper attention to the task at hand, because they were afraid of the boss's wrath if they didn't get all the work done quickly enough.
Ulrich: From stories I have heard, the McBride bridge was in fact properly inspected and the local B&B master knew there was some urgent replacement required to complete an already planned program. The TSB report refers to how the local territories were adjusted, I think several times, after that incompleted program. If the local supervisor is insistent the work needs to be done, and you don't want to spend the money on what was then a relatively minor line, assign him to a different territory to shut him up.
Whether it was EHH himself making the decision, or an acolyte implementing his policy, is irrelevant. When you are the top dog you have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. I think a lot of this type of thing happened verbally so there would be no paper trail. Speaking out tended to mean instant dismissal at the higher levels as well working class.
The local crews at Lillooet similarly were crying loud and long to get only DB equipped units assigned there, but were ignored by the handpicked supervisors who had been indoctrinated in the EHH philosophy. That crew perhaps should have ignored the demand by their immediate supervisor and been fired as a result. They would have lost only their jobs, not their lives, and a different crew would have died in their place.
There may not be a provable direct correlation between these events and EHH personally, but they are definitely the direct result of his management philosophy. And that is why he has left a legacy of loathing.
SD70Dude I'd say there's no direct correlation between those sad events and EHH. Bridge should have been inspected properly.. and 6 motor units with DB should have been deployed in the Lillooet incident. Overall, safety at CN has been good (unless the reports I read are all lies and fabrication) Railroad safety has improved overall over the years.. go back 25, 50 and 100 years, and look at the number of injuries and lives lost compared to today. Not saying EHH was without fault.. nor would I diminish any loss of life or injury in the workplace.. just saying it isn't all one person's fault.. and a job loss isn't the end of the world. Ulrich Getting laid off or fired, however, isn't quite the same or as severe as having one's arms and legs chopped off. Most of us get fired or laid off at some point in our lives.. it isn't pleasant, but it happens. We adjust and move on, hopefully, leaving any useless hard feelings behind. What would you say to the families of the Engineer and Conductor who were killed near McBride, BC in 2003 when a improperly inspected and maintained bridge collapsed under their train? Same goes for the Conductor and Brakeman who were killed in 2006 near Lillooet, BC when their train ran away down a mountain grade, due to CN selling/scrapping BC Rail's dynamic brake-equipped 4 axle locomotives, and replacing them with old CN units that did not have DB. Both those incidents were caused by cuts initiated by Harrison.
I'd say there's no direct correlation between those sad events and EHH. Bridge should have been inspected properly.. and 6 motor units with DB should have been deployed in the Lillooet incident. Overall, safety at CN has been good (unless the reports I read are all lies and fabrication) Railroad safety has improved overall over the years.. go back 25, 50 and 100 years, and look at the number of injuries and lives lost compared to today. Not saying EHH was without fault.. nor would I diminish any loss of life or injury in the workplace.. just saying it isn't all one person's fault.. and a job loss isn't the end of the world.
Ulrich Getting laid off or fired, however, isn't quite the same or as severe as having one's arms and legs chopped off. Most of us get fired or laid off at some point in our lives.. it isn't pleasant, but it happens. We adjust and move on, hopefully, leaving any useless hard feelings behind.
Getting laid off or fired, however, isn't quite the same or as severe as having one's arms and legs chopped off. Most of us get fired or laid off at some point in our lives.. it isn't pleasant, but it happens. We adjust and move on, hopefully, leaving any useless hard feelings behind.
What would you say to the families of the Engineer and Conductor who were killed near McBride, BC in 2003 when a improperly inspected and maintained bridge collapsed under their train?
Same goes for the Conductor and Brakeman who were killed in 2006 near Lillooet, BC when their train ran away down a mountain grade, due to CN selling/scrapping BC Rail's dynamic brake-equipped 4 axle locomotives, and replacing them with old CN units that did not have DB.
Both those incidents were caused by cuts initiated by Harrison.
Ruthless methods will often and quite naturally invite a ruthless (or at least very negative) response. Mr Harrison appears to me to have been ruthless in his application of his operational model. Hence the response by some.
Charlie
looking forward to Fred's book
also .....
Firelock, well said post @Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:58 PM …. An additional thought, as a retired school teacher, I can attest to the need to do what is necessary as one sees their job, not what others would like for you to do in your job. Let me digress further. As retired military, memories of basic training from time to time come back to mind. At the time of basic, I had no interest in the future. My drill sergeant did and we were not “okie dokie” what all we had to do. Oh, how many times former students have complimented on the challenging task they had when I was teaching high school chemistry/physics. During the class they sure moaned and groaned. How many grade point averages …. I destroyed …. as felt by the students who did not accept the challenge. I graded on the curve set by the best performer in the class. Seemed fair and worked well over the years. Another note: there was a time when the “curve setter” was proud of the accomplishment, toward the end of my career there came along a “cultural thing”, students were NOT proud of their setting the curve …… what?
An interesting observation is the comment by Bob W @ Monday, December 18, 2017 8:14 AM …. “clean slate to start a rebuild” ……. but then the wisdom of huge sum to pay off debt EHH carried
SD70Dude on Sunday, December 17, 2017 11:02 AM this FACT of deaths was something that came to mind as EHH legacy was mulled over in my mind. When unqualified were expected to perform and at that overtaxed w/other people’s jobs, the RIF policy has gone amuck, even deadly. SAD, no TRAGIC
greyhounds on Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:41 PM AMEN
My point, EHH and others who are ruthless in their drive to seek a better situation, for all ……. in the end. Basic training in the military is to get an individual to accept authority and follow orders. In life or death situations there is no time to discuss what is best. Yes, there are those not worthy of leadership and then there are those who have been blamed with tragedy due to their leadership position/decision. Wow, later in life they were exonerated. What about when they made the decision? Looked bad then. Life is hard. Pity the poor cop who makes a split-second decision then the SCOUS takes a year to see if he was correct. Life is hard endmrw1219170812
charlie hebdoTasteless comments.
I know that there are folks who will rue his passing - family, friends, etc. But I"m also quite certain that those folks who lost their jobs or were otherwise negatively affected as the result of his actions as a CEO are probably lining up to dance on his grave.
Tasteless comments for a professionally tasteless individual.
Electroliner 1935 Dmacleo this article (while I cannot attest to how well vetted it is) has always grapsed my attention http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/the-other-side-of-hunter-harrisons-cp-legacy-white-collar-workers-driving-trains I read the article and am reminded of the line. EHH said a doctor is a doctor. He needed a brain surgen and got a proctologist. Any desk worker can run a train. But like is said in the Play, the Music Man, "YOU GOTTA KNOW THE TERRITORY" and a lot more.
Dmacleo this article (while I cannot attest to how well vetted it is) has always grapsed my attention http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/the-other-side-of-hunter-harrisons-cp-legacy-white-collar-workers-driving-trains
I read the article and am reminded of the line. EHH said a doctor is a doctor. He needed a brain surgen and got a proctologist. Any desk worker can run a train. But like is said in the Play, the Music Man, "YOU GOTTA KNOW THE TERRITORY" and a lot more.
Actually he hired a proctological brain surgeon - he attacked the brain issues from the bottom up instead of the top down.
RDG467 EHH sounds like a good topic for Fred Frailey's next book!!
EHH sounds like a good topic for Fred Frailey's next book!!
I completely agree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHQLQ1Rc_Js
Dmacleothis article (while I cannot attest to how well vetted it is) has always grapsed my attention http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/the-other-side-of-hunter-harrisons-cp-legacy-white-collar-workers-driving-trains
UlrichEHH made no bones about getting rid of marginal business.. there's alot of it out there. On a smaller scale many businesses do the same. Want to increase your sales? Step 1: get rid of your marginal accounts that tie up limited resources that could be more effectively deployed in servicing your A level accounts.
Problem is EHH's methods made all business marginal, and virtually all customers unwanted.
BOB WITHORNIt is quite amazing how so many that never were withing a hundred miles of EHH have all the answers. They are absolutely convinced that he was the devil himself!! Never met the man but have talked to a couple people that worked for, and had direct contact with, him. <<sni>>.......Now feel free to call me names and pick me apart. I get what he was doing. By the way I'm corporate mgmt. just in a private, not public company, and like Mr. Harrison, I started at the bottom. Bob, I think that was a very balanced summary of a very polarizing figure. It's not easy to see the 'shades of gray' in his career. EHH won respect as an operating man at long, skinny railroads, but perhaps he pushed his philosophy too far by trying to hold a last rodeo at CSX after his merger ideas were spurned. EHH sounds like a good topic for Fred Frailey's next book!!
EHH made no bones about getting rid of marginal business.. there's alot of it out there. On a smaller scale many businesses do the same. Want to increase your sales? Step 1: get rid of your marginal accounts that tie up limited resources that could be more effectively deployed in servicing your A level accounts.
while I think he had some good ideas I do find it odd CN and CP both had to struggle to regain customers after his changes and think he tried to do much at CSX way too fast.
this article (while I cannot attest to how well vetted it is) has always grapsed my attention
http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/the-other-side-of-hunter-harrisons-cp-legacy-white-collar-workers-driving-trains
I feel for his family AND I feel for those affected by his cuts.
The picture shown on today's (12/18/17) News tab photo shows Cindy Sanborn giving the 'death eye' look at EHH - it just too longer to work than she would have liked.
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