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Two longs, no shorts

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, December 7, 2017 6:52 AM

Paul of Covington
After all these years, they can't build a reliable bell?

One of our RS18u's has a regular air powered bell.  The other loco has an electric (not electronic) bell, but the actuator needs to be lubed every now and then or the bell just clicks...

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 10:46 PM

jeffhergert
On modern engines the horn button/handle will also start the bell. Some will ring once or twice then quit. Some will work about half way to a crossing/past men etc, then quit. Some work fine at one crossing then have problems at the next. Mechanical (real) bells sound better, but electronic bells are more reliable.

   After all these years, they can't build a reliable bell?   I don't think steam engines had this problem.   Unless the cord broke, maybe.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 11:41 AM

Mookie

 

 
Deggesty
Did anyone feel stung by your competitor?

 

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:50 AM
I have a flouresent orange ball cap that stopped wearing for the same reason. As long as I kept moving, mower, tractor, etc I was ok, but on foot and I became a target.
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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:31 AM

Deggesty
Did anyone feel stung by your competitor?

Oh, Johnny!  Dots - Sign

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 8:47 AM

tree68

 

 
Paul of Covington

   I don't remember hearing it lately, but sometime ago I noticed on the Rochelle web cam that when workers were present some UP trains would give repeated quick double toots instead of ringing the bell.  

 

Odds are you're just not hearing the bell with the horn being sounded.  

NORAC calls for a long and a short repeated.  The rule shown earlier shows the crossing signal being blown in the same situation.

One person's long might be another person's short...

 

When approaching and passing men and equipment, initially sound a long and a short and then intermittently two shorts.  The bell should be ringing, but they sometimes don't work properly. 

On modern engines the horn button/handle will also start the bell.  Some will ring once or twice then quit. Some will work about half way to a crossing/past men etc, then quit.  Some work fine at one crossing then have problems at the next.  Mechanical (real) bells sound better, but electronic bells are more reliable.

Jeff 

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 8:11 AM

Murphy Siding

      That reminds me of a time when one of our competitors in the lumber business gave out 500 florescent pink hats with their company name on them. Nice looking hats, but no one could wear them as they somehow attracted bees and wasps big time. 

 

Did anyone feel stung by your competitor?Smile

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:42 AM

Paul of Covington

   I don't remember hearing it lately, but sometime ago I noticed on the Rochelle web cam that when workers were present some UP trains would give repeated quick double toots instead of ringing the bell.  

Odds are you're just not hearing the bell with the horn being sounded.  

NORAC calls for a long and a short repeated.  The rule shown earlier shows the crossing signal being blown in the same situation.

One person's long might be another person's short...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:47 PM

      That reminds me of a time when one of our competitors in the lumber business gave out 500 florescent pink hats with their company name on them. Nice looking hats, but no one could wear them as they somehow attracted bees and wasps big time. 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:42 PM

No misleading info, the CCOR's last two editions just changed their number for the rule.

The vests/hi-vis clothing requirement came about a few years ago.  I don't think it's been 10 years yet, but time gets away from me.  It's been said the requirement comes via USDOT.  Originally wanting anyone near a public road (think railroad crossings) to wear one.  The railroads just took the idea and ran with it.

Inside the cab, buildings, or even walking from a crew van to/from a building (unless you have to cross tracks) you don't have to wear it.

When they first started requiring them, someone asked the superintendent if a high-vis cap could be used in lieu of the vest.  The answer was no, because not everyone wears caps.  But I guess everyone wears vests.  Vests can be replaced by shirts or coats that are at least ansi-2 standard.  I have a zippered sweat shirt and a winter coat for cooler weather.

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:39 PM

tree68

NORAC 19(e) has three shorts for back up, two for forward.

The crossing signal is NORAC 19(b).

 

Parked close to the yard - we hear - (I think I have this right) 1 short for set and centered; 2 advance and 3 back up.  Always some kind of whistle @ depot, but figure it is for the unobservant as well as a signal for the depot.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:30 PM

   I don't remember hearing it lately, but sometime ago I noticed on the Rochelle web cam that when workers were present some UP trains would give repeated quick double toots instead of ringing the bell.   I guess the situation would be covered by (f) in Balt's CSX chart which doesn't specify what the sounds would be.   Is this a UP convention or rule?   I don't remember hearing BNSF do this.

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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:20 PM

jeffhergert

Zardoz, your Consolidated Code upbringing is showing.  Whistle and horn signals were under Rule 14 in just about every other rule book, pre-NORAC and GCOR era.  (GCOR, before they renumbered the rules, used Rule 15.)  Even the Consolidated Code before the 1967 edition had them under Rule 14.

Jeff

 

My apologies to all for misleading information.

And since my years behind the throttle are now officially established as based in antiquity, I can now ask questions that are directed towards current Rails, such as: When did the policy requiring Engineers to wear those silly orange or yellow 'safety' vests begin? And does the crew have to wear them even when sitting in the cab?

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:03 PM

Three shorts (which GCOR also has for backing up) also at one time was a signal while moving to stop at the next passenger station.  One video I have from the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic's early days shows a double header approaching Cumbres.  The lead engine sounds one extended long (approaching station) and then three shorts.  The second answers with three shorts.

Jeff

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 9:47 PM

NORAC 19(e) has three shorts for back up, two for forward.

The crossing signal is NORAC 19(b).

LarryWhistling
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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 9:40 PM

Deggesty

 

 
BaltACD

CSX Horn Rules

 

 

 

That (g) is a new one to me. Is this blown when the engineer has had no signal to proceed given him? 

 

 

Two longs have traditionally been used when initiating movement forward.  (except as noted during switching moves)  It's to warn anyone near the train you are about to start moving.  In the old days, it was also to warn those in the caboose.  (It was also the answer to a train order signal displaying a calling-on indication under the old Uniform Code.)

Jeff

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 5, 2017 8:03 AM

BaltACD

CSX Horn Rules

 

That (g) is a new one to me. Is this blown when the engineer has had no signal to proceed given him? 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 4, 2017 11:19 PM

CSX Horn Rules

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 4, 2017 10:39 PM

aegrotatio
It sounds like a local operating policy for stations or depots, maybe?

I spend a lot of time at the Utica, NY station this time of year.  You hear the gamut - a couple of shorts, a couple of longs, one long, one short, 15L, what-have-you, even Jingle Bells one night a few years ago...  

LarryWhistling
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Posted by aegrotatio on Monday, December 4, 2017 10:35 PM

I had some free time one afternoon so I railfanned the VRE on Norfolk Southern.  When the trains approach the station they sound two long blasts and that was it.  In that particular area, all of the crossings with earshot are grade-separated.

It sounds like a local operating policy for stations or depots, maybe?

 

 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 4, 2017 6:56 PM

Zardoz, your Consolidated Code upbringing is showing.  Whistle and horn signals were under Rule 14 in just about every other rule book, pre-NORAC and GCOR era.  (GCOR, before they renumbered the rules, used Rule 15.)  Even the Consolidated Code before the 1967 edition had them under Rule 14.

Jeff

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 4, 2017 3:23 PM

zardoz
On the rare occasions when the train speed is slower, the Engineers do a series of 15L's, one right after the other (long-long-short-long-long-long-short-long).

As I recall, the rule reads that the 15L signal will be sounded for crossings, and if you get through --.- before you reach the crossing, you repeat it until you do.

Most engineers have the timing down well enough that they can get the signal in in the requisite 15-20 seconds and finish at the crossing, for a single road crossing.  Multiples are another story, as already noted.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by zardoz on Monday, December 4, 2017 3:14 PM

Where I live, there are two roads that meet at a "T", and the CP tracks cross both roads just before the roads meet, and track speed is 79/60. There is about five car lengths between the roads, and most Engineers use a sequence of "Long--Long--Short--Long--Short--Long (the standard 15L warning with an abreviated 15L tacked on the end).

On the rare occasions when the train speed is slower, the Engineers do a series of 15L's, one right after the other (long-long-short-long-long-long-short-long).

An aside note, in Pleasant Prairie WI (where the aforementioned crossing is), for years now all of the grade crossings have a sign warning motorists that "No train horn sounded), yet the trains on both the UP and CP continue to honk away at all hours.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, December 3, 2017 8:19 AM

Murphy Siding
 I know what you mean about crossings close together.

I've seen areas where the "whistle board" also included the letters "MX", for multiple crossings.

OTOH, the village of Hancock, NY, used to include about 4 crossings in short order, but due to a very sharp curve and the old truss bridge, train speeds are very low.  Combine squealing wheels, the bridge, and all those crossings, and it gets pretty noisy at dawn on a Sunday morning.  But I digress.  One of the crossings was closed, and most engineers were "gentle" on the horn early in the morning.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Paul of Covington on Saturday, December 2, 2017 10:33 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
Semper Vaporo

How close together are the crossings?  Maybe there just is not time to complete the regular --.- between crossings, so the engineers are just sounding a series of longs with short breaks between.

 

 

 

This is a very rural area. There is a generally a gravel mile road every 5280 feet. This area is near a lake so the distance is probably one crossing every 2 miles or so.

     I know what you mean about crossings close together. We stayed overnight in a small town in Northern Minnesota once where the coal trains came through at track speed. The tracks ran diagonal to the streets. There were 6-8 crossing very tightly spaced. The trains pretty much blew their horns from one of town to the other.

 

   Where I used to work in New Orleans, there were tracks that cut diagonally through a residential area.   Where two crossings were very close, I noticed that they would just prolong the final long till the second street was crossed.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, December 2, 2017 6:35 PM

Mookie

Murphy's orig post - sounds like daylight - they use regular xing whistle.  This only happens at night.  Maybe businesses during day have traffic - necessitating a full whistle, while at nite all is closed, but just in case of some walking/mobile traffic, you need some kind of whistle.  Hence, Wow a partial quiet zone for anyone living in the area.  Murphy, care to clarify?  (Our city declared a lot of quiet zone, not the railroad.  Too bad it doesn't apply to noisy cars)

 

It's a very rural area, no businesses, mostly just farms and some lake cabins (not our cabin). Daytime traffic would be cars, trucks and tractors. Night time would be deer, raccoons and an occasional car.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, December 2, 2017 6:32 PM

Semper Vaporo

How close together are the crossings?  Maybe there just is not time to complete the regular --.- between crossings, so the engineers are just sounding a series of longs with short breaks between.

 

This is a very rural area. There is a generally a gravel mile road every 5280 feet. This area is near a lake so the distance is probably one crossing every 2 miles or so.

     I know what you mean about crossings close together. We stayed overnight in a small town in Northern Minnesota once where the coal trains came through at track speed. The tracks ran diagonal to the streets. There were 6-8 crossing very tightly spaced. The trains pretty much blew their horns from one of town to the other.

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Posted by Mookie on Saturday, December 2, 2017 4:20 PM

Murphy's orig post - sounds like daylight - they use regular xing whistle.  This only happens at night.  Maybe businesses during day have traffic - necessitating a full whistle, while at nite all is closed, but just in case of some walking/mobile traffic, you need some kind of whistle.  Hence, Wow a partial quiet zone for anyone living in the area.  Murphy, care to clarify?  (Our city declared a lot of quiet zone, not the railroad.  Too bad it doesn't apply to noisy cars)

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Saturday, December 2, 2017 3:03 PM

How close together are the crossings?  Maybe there just is not time to complete the regular --.- between crossings, so the engineers are just sounding a series of longs with short breaks between.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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