I &M Rail Link

[Anonymous]

don't get me excited...lol it's a loooooooong shot i know, but it's just too bad there wasn't any forsight back in the day. too many railroads and tracks, not enough traffic. nowadays it's almost too much traffic and not enough railroad... it's too bad i was born the year the rock went belly up in '80 and i wasn't able to see the main across IL in action. 'course it's glory days were long gone before then...

[MP173]

Farmer:

I agree with you. At some point that line will be valuable. In the Trains article earlier this year the point was made of the value of the CRIP location in Chicago. With it exiting Chicago on the south side, freight trains could be out of the congestion much quicker than on the other routes.

Imagine UP tonnage from any of the eastern carriers today...NS, CSX, or CN being exchanged at Blue Island and moving west. I am not sure if there is a connection there now, but somewhere it would work.

Ed

[Anonymous]

interesting website for the IC&E...and same goes for the discussion about it. i'm still holding out hope for the UP to buy into the ex-RI line to chicago....3rd main, mostly parallel, and right thru my backyard...just needs a little TLC.

[jeffhergert]

This is what I had always been told, and have no way of knowing how true it was. When the CP sold off the trackage to the IMRL, the CP had conditions that allowed them to serve some of the big customers. The CP got the line haul revenue while the IMRL did the work and received a haulage fee per car.
I know the UP was interested, maybe still is, in the portion of the line from Clinton to Seymour, Iowa. There were even reports in the Des Moines Register a few years ago about the UP buying and surveying the abandoned ex-RI Golden State line from Allerton, Iowa over to Seymour. Some of that property I believe was already purchased by the CNW when they thought they were going to get the Milwaukee.
The UP still interchanges coal trains at Clinton with the IC&E. The UP did a lot of overhead intermodal business with the IMRL. Since the DM&E is trying to get into the coal fields, when they bought the IMRL the UP stopped sending trains over the former IMRL lines.
Jeff

[MP173]

Wow!

I had better keep my day job!

Mark, you just blew my business plan out of the water.

I will nod my head in agreement to those points, but I still hold fast by my arguement that if we accept all of the concerns of capacity issues...then where are the trains going to run?

Let me ask this....what is the projected rail traffic for 2020, or 2025 in comparison to today? I look at what limited information I have...recently there was an article in Trains outlining the dramatic increase in traffic on the old Santa Fe line. I look at the tonnage map of Chicago that was recently published and see the jump in 30 years. It goes on and on. The repeating story hear is that railroading will be a growth industry. Not technology type growth, but above GNP growth. The rule of 72 tells us how long it takes for doubling based on compound growth. Fill in the numbers and there is a doubling of trains within a pretty short period of time.

Where are the trains going to run?

Capital is precious and needs to be allocated accordingly. Agreed.

The best route will win. Agreed.

Investment needs to be made on those routes. Agreed. Except look at those routes. They go thru cities, neighborhoods...areas in which adding a third mainline is an enormous issue. Start moving people out, or even talk about increased trains and you have a Cleveland issue all over again. Politicians with their hands out and smiles on their faces.

Right of ways (should that be Rights of ways?) that are intact with rails in place today shoud be maintained, in my opinion. Perhaps CSX has it right, cant afford to run the trains, but we will lease the line out.

Conventional wisdom regarding operating railroads may have to be questioned in the future. Making a right turn (or left turn) at Kansas City may be an option. Hub and spoke is not the most convenient method of operating an airline, and I am not advocating the rails look at the jets for a business model, boy do they have issues, but a long term stratgic plan should probably start to be addressed.

I hate government intervention and I hate committees, but shouldnt this be addressed now?

ed

[daveklepper]

Thanks, Mark, for an excellent analysis. I like that analogy with the neighbor's junker car.

I use public transportation, and prefer at the age of 72 going on 73 not to own an automobile. (But maybe if the right hybrid comes along and I can afford it, I will want to "put my money where my mouth is.") One of my best friends has an old car, and sometimes he does me the favor of letting me use it. But I would not even think of accepting the favor if he turned around and said "OK, now you have to pay your share of the insurance and registration and repairs."

I guess I am like the lettuce growers that used the SP freight service after giving the truckers the cream of the traffic - in this situation only.

[MP173]

Why not CN-KCS?

Perhaps the route is not the quickest nor the most level. But, from what I have read here, most delays occur due to terminals. UP's record in Texas has not been sterling. Factor in future growth and one might find certain lines would be intermodal in nature and others (such as this routing) would handle less time sensitive, but consistency required freight.

If anything, CN has a track record of expanding by purchasing ((IC, WC, Algoma, and BCR).

All I am saying is that with all of the talk about the need for infrastructure in the future...this line would have potential. As recently as the late 90's the I&M seemed to be a safety valve for UP and NS.

CPR also sold off the Soo Line which ended up in CN's hands, albiet 20 years later. OOPS! I am sure no one at CP considers that to be a major blunder, but CN was able to fill in their map nicely.

Gabe, I am sure the two companies are separated in order to isolate liabilities. and assets.

ed

[gabe]

Does anyone know why DM&E does not run DM&E and IC&E as one property? I would have thought there would be added advantages to having one contiguous system and the reduction of redundant jobs?

I am sure there is an obvious answer to this question that anyone in the business would know. Unfortunately, I am not in the business and I do not know?

Gabe

[Anonymous]

I thought the CN did own the IC&E?

[MP173]

Thanks Hegewisch:

That is really a great site for a regional railroad. Lots of info on that.

I would think CN might want that line some time. It certainly would fill in the gaps on the maps. Kansas City Southern could be reached at KC and with a lot of money and work, Powder River.

But, again, I think its value has to be looked at in the future, as a secondary line.

ed

[wcfan4ever]

I heard a RUMOR a while back that CN was looking into buying the ICE. I dont think that would happen without purchasing the DME as well. They say CN wants into the Powder River Basin but seems DME is not there yet why would they buy them?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

A good website to check would be http://illinirail.50megs.com/icerail/

IC&E currently operates an evening departure out of Clearing with a fairly large train behind three or four rebuilt SD40-2's (6400's).

[gabe]

Ed,

I am not an expert to begin with and this is outside my area of geographic specialty. But, it didn't have anything to do with their lack of success. They were bought by the DME and the DME changed their name. I was hoping the DME would operate it as one contiguous system . . . alas, that is not what they did.

I am told that they have since lost their automobile haulage business to UP (I think the spine line) since the merger. Alas, I like to see successful regionals.

Gabe

[MP173]

I re-read the September 2000 Trains issue last night and enjoyed the article on the
I & M Raillink.

Back around that time I was travelling regularly to the Quad Cities and Muscatine and would catch the action. I also would go up the river to Dubuque and Marquette.

I believe that operation has now changed....is it now called IC &E? Why did that happen? Financially? Was the I &M having financial problems?

What are the current operations on the new line? The I&M had a pretty good amount traffic on the mainline. Is there still a good amount of traffic, or has some of the UP business shifted away?

As I think about it, this line could be critical for the future. Think about it as a safety valve between Chicago and Kansas City, throw in the IC line to Omaha and the Iowa (ex Rock) line from the Quad Cities to Omaha and you have a safety valve outlet for when traffic doubles in the next 20 years.

Hopefully, these lines will not go away.

Any info on the current operations would be appreciated.

ed