How would they operate this mess?

[DSchmitt]

Lemp Brewery

https://stlouispatina.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/getimage-idx.jpg

from this Thread on on Layout Forum.

  http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/263292.aspx

 

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

With a lot of advance planning.  The track plan does look like something from the local model railroad club.  It may reflect unplanned growth on the part of the customer, who looks like the favorite customer of the Whiting Corporation (builder of Trackmobiles).

[54light15]

Speaking of model railroads, I'm building a new N scale layout and there will be a brewery on it as well as a malting silo and hop field and this has given me some ideas! Thanks for posting. I assume from the map that the line on Potomac street is the access into the plant. 

[tree68]

There's a couple of spots that have me wondering how to get from A to B...

[mudchicken]

Fireless Cookers and lots of 40' (and shorter) cars....switchmen had to keep a good handle on where they set out and left cars during switching or they could find themselves trapped. Wonder how many No. 3-4-5 turnouts were in here and how long they survived in regular use? 

If you had not noticed, there is a cable car railroad thrown in just for grins. (The winding house is right in the middle of that pile of brick buildings!) Stuff like this was more common than you think prior to 1900. (mind candy for PDN?)

Aren't Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps a blast?

The buildings are still on the site, but the track is long gone.

N 38 35' 28.5"  W 90 13' 02.2" St. Louis bottoms along the river....Once you find a little history of the brewery, it becomes clear why they stayed on the site for 50+ years. (Shoe factory took over the site for another 60 years)

[cx500]

Is it possible that it might have been little electrics rather than fireless cookers?  They also are short, especially the 2-axle variety, and fully capable of handling streetcar type curves and the small freight cars of the day.

[CandOforprogress2]

[BaltACD]

mudchicken

Fireless Cookers and lots of 40' (and shorter) cars....switchmen had to keep a good handle on where they set out and left cars during switching or they could find themselves trapped. Wonder how many No. 3-4-5 turnouts were in here and how long they survived in regular use? 

If you had not noticed, there is a cable car railroad thrown in just for grins. (The winding house is right in the middle of that pile of brick buildings!) Stuff like this was more common than you think prior to 1900. (mind candy for PDN?)

Aren't Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps a blast?

The buildings are still on the site, but the track is long gone.

N 38 35' 28.5"  W 90 13' 02.2" St. Louis bottoms along the river....Once you find a little history of the brewery, it becomes clear why they stayed on the site for 50+ years. (Shoe factory took over the site for another 60 years)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemp_Brewery

[edblysard]

I see several places to run around small cuts of cars, at least 4, maybe 5 obvious places, and if there is a small yard nearby or a siding to hold the spot cars, pulling first then spotting last would work, you could use a 0 4 0 camelback…if the tracks were there long enough, a SW would work too! Looks like a entire shift might be spent in there! 

Looking at the current satellite image, I find the Anheuser Busch plant to the east interesting too, with its elevated track/flyover…but from the shape of quite a few of the surrounding building it appears there was access to the small yard just south of the Lemp property, which would make working this place , while not easy, manageable.

[BaltACD]

Back in the late 60's the B&O at Cleveland serviced the DuPont plant - what all they manufactured Lord only knows - however, both 1st and 2nd trick yard jobs were dedicated to doing in plant switching for all the various chemical processes that the plant used.  In many cases intra-plant switches were performed and should have been charged for - I don't know if they were charged for (there may have been a local agreement in place about these jobs).

The reason many industries with involved in plant trackage secure their own locomotive or car mover is to minimize intra-plant switching charges.  A industry is given one spotting and one pulling of a car for payment of the normal freight charges.  If a car is to be moved between specified spots within the industry after being placed at the initial spot, then a intra-plant switch charge is to be assessed.  A single switch charge by itself is not that expensive; however plants needing intra-plant switches do not have only one - more likely hundreds, if not thousands per month and it becomes more inexpensive for them to have their own means of switching cars in plant than paying the railroad to do it for them.

[samfp1943]

CandOforprogress2

 

And then there were the Buckwalter Electric Trucks ( operated by both PRR and NYC ) in cities on the East Coast. They were orig.(1916) built as battery powered, but later fitted with internal combustion engines.

And for BaltACD, B&O,  they had this 0-4-0 GE Boxcab(1909) used on the Baltimore docks.

linked @ http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=401524&nseq=76

[rcdrye]

The Western Cable Railway was actually Lemp's access to St Louis Iron Mountain and Southern.  Originally used a steam winch and a "grip car", which was not really a grip car but was permanently attached to the cable.  Track construction was similar to contemporary street railway cable systems, but without the continuous cable.  At Broadway the Western Cable crossed the Broadway cable line of the St. Louis Railroad.  The Broadway cars dropped their cable and coasted across the Western Cable, using a bottom grip simialr to that still used in San Francisco.  The Western Cable was later equipped with 0-4-0-T steam switchers which were definitely not fireless cookers.

(See http://collections.mohistory.org/resource/152558.html for a photo of one on the plant trackage.)

[RME]

rcdrye

Originally used a steam winch and a "grip car", which was not really a grip car but was permanently attached to the cable.

How do the details of this system differ from the cable systems used in places like the Ashley Planes?

[rcdrye]

Here's a full description:

http://www.cable-car-guy.com/html/ccstl_wcr.html

[RME]

But I don't see them indicate clearly how the 'grip car' gets out from behind the freight cars at the bottom end.  At Ashley that was done by having the barney drop down into its pocket.

Note the very interesting discussion of how a cable line can cross over another when one of them has a nondetachable car.  I will have to see if I can find the illustrations in an original somewhere.

[rcdrye]

A drawing of the grip car appears on page 353 of George W. Hilton's monumental work "The Cable Car in America".  The car had eight wheels on two arch bar trucks and was drawn by a 2000 ft. wire rope cable with embedded control lines.  In operation the grip car was dropped down to the end of the line, where a tight curve to the left put the car at the end of its track.  Cars being "interchanged" with the common-carrier Western Cable were pushed against the grip car by an Iron Mountain switcher.  The grip car pulled the cars up and into the building, from where small steam switchers and horses move the cars to their spots.  Cars were returned to the StLIM&S by gravity.  A short portion of the line had a grade of slightly more than 7%. On Broadway there was a hand-operated depression pulley for the Broadway cable cars so they could pass over the WC's cable when it was extended.

The Broadway cable line, by then operated by the United Railroads of St. Louis, was converted to electric operation in October 1900.  It was converted to bus in 1956.  The Western Cable remained in place and operationuntil the Lemp brewery closed due to Prohibition in 1921.

[ChuckCobleigh]

https://www.lempbrewerycomplex.com