There has been a lengthy Eastbound on the GR-Plymouth line approaching Lansing in the late morning time period the last few weeks. OPS there had been a D train out of Lansing to Plymouth and back one day and then Lansing to GR and back, to Lansing, the next.
From the outside this does look like a change in CSX's daytime Traffic E of Grand Rapids which has been near nothing except a local for some time.
Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
Kentucky Southern Railway
I believe they turn all of the Sarnia, Ont. chemicals over to CN at the CN yard in Sarnia now. Formerly sent them to Buffalo, Windsor and Port Huron.
Correction to my original:
There was a barge operation until 2003. CSX got trackage rights from CN to Flint after the abandoned their own line to Saginaw from P/H. NOW they turn everything over to CN at Sarnia.
Sorry about the mess, must have been typing in my sleep, used to even go to P/H to watch they ferries as well as the CN ones that carried the HI Cubes and dangerous chems.
Is the chemical traffic coming out of Sarnia/Port Huron considered part of the Flint business?
Norm48327Balt, I'm still trying to decipher the logic of sending Flint traffic from Toledo to Grand Rapids via Chicago then to Plymouth and Flint. That seems to add a lot of mileage and crew starts to the equation. Toledo direct Flint seems much more efficient.
I'm still trying to decipher the logic of sending Flint traffic from Toledo to Grand Rapids via Chicago then to Plymouth and Flint. That seems to add a lot of mileage and crew starts to the equation. Toledo direct Flint seems much more efficient.
I don't have enough knowledge of the Michigan operations to comment on the car handling operations.
CSX does a lot of car movement to eliminate switching at some terminals. The only blocks that were dispatched from Baltimore when I retired were Cumberland and Selkirk. No Philadelphia, Brunswick or Richmond blocks. Traffic for those destinations are included in the Cumberland or Selkirk blocks, humped at those locations and back hauled to destination. I didn't think it was a smart move and the time and still don't - putting an extra 350 miles and likely 3 days on a shipment between Baltimore and Richmond.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Balt,
Norm
MP173So, is it safe to assume a "D train" is a local? It is known the "Q" trains are manifest or scheduled trains. Why would CSX want it classed as a local rather than a scheduled train? I realize it is probably semantics, but there must be a reason behind the logic. Ed
Why would CSX want it classed as a local rather than a scheduled train? I realize it is probably semantics, but there must be a reason behind the logic.
Ed
Locals are also scheduled. With that being said, locals are not figured in the Velocity numbers. Velocity is one of the measures operating management is measured by.
So, is it safe to assume a "D train" is a local? It is known the "Q" trains are manifest or scheduled trains.
BOB WITHORNSaturnalia, So, the Flint / GR trains go by way of Plymouth and Chicago?
Right.
Q326/327 are Chicago-Grand Rapids, with EVERYTHING for the Grand Rapids and Flint based trains.
D701/702 then ferry any and all of the Flint-based traffic from Grand Rapids to Flint by way of Plymouth.
Q321/322, previously handling all Flint-based traffic, have been cancelled outright.
Basically D701/702 are road trains but they don't want more Q trains so they're classed as D-jobs. But the crews like it since they get paid more and it is a show-up job, not a call-on one.
FYI...todays Q326 is 159 cars with 9400 ft.
Sounds like the new operation plan is in effect.
ed
Thanks for the update on Michigan ops. I had not seen or heard the Q326/327 in quite some time. With 3x week and at night it made sense.
Glad to hear it is up to 6x week.
MP173 The above comments by Saturnalia and n012944 are well constructed and offer great detail and insite into CSX Michigan operations. While you do not exactly agree, it is obvious there is common ground. From both of your analysis, it appears Michigan lines are here to stay (at least for now). It will be interesting to see if Q326/Q327 (Chicago - GR) sees more traffic, or perhaps another pair will be added. What are the schedules for Q326/327 to hit Porter? I havent heard or seen those trains in quite sometime. Do the grain trains currently head south thru Toledo? I have not seen/heard a grain train on the PM.
The above comments by Saturnalia and n012944 are well constructed and offer great detail and insite into CSX Michigan operations. While you do not exactly agree, it is obvious there is common ground. From both of your analysis, it appears Michigan lines are here to stay (at least for now).
It will be interesting to see if Q326/Q327 (Chicago - GR) sees more traffic, or perhaps another pair will be added.
What are the schedules for Q326/327 to hit Porter? I havent heard or seen those trains in quite sometime.
Do the grain trains currently head south thru Toledo? I have not seen/heard a grain train on the PM.
Sorry my reply has been delayed, been busy as of late!
So here's a bit of an update.
Q326/327 were running 3x per week each. Q326 was generally a midnight call out of Barr passing over the NS in the wee hours of the morning and making it to Riverside, Kirk, Grand Junction or Wells for Amtrak #371. Q327 was being called between 2000-0001 and thus was arriving into Barr around 7am most mornings that it ran.
In light of all the above, we now have two new trains: D701 and D702. These replace the eliminated Q321/322 which used to run from Flint to Stanley.
D701 and D702 are both on duty between 0600 and 0800 out of Flint and Grand Rapids, respectively, and are set to run 6 days a week each. These ferry all of the Flint traffic to/from GR, which is then forwarded to/from Chicago on the now 6-day-per-week Q326/327.
Also, all through traffic on D707/708 via Plymouth has stopped.
So now ALL Grand Rapids and Flint based traffic in Michigan "flushes" via Q326/327 to Chicago. That includes all of the stone traffic, where Harrison killed off the unit trains in favor of running blocks on the Merch trains.
It remains to be seen if Grand Rapids picks up any Detroit traffic, or gets a Willard train, but in the meantime you can bet that the crews in Grand Rapids are very excited about this development, because for them, it means that essentially everybody gets work, and they've pretty much called back everybody from furlough. In order to run much more, they'll need transfers from other terminals or even some new hires.
On the grain train side, all of that traffic continues to leave Michigan via Toledo, since almost all of it goes south or east, much of it for export. That includes the Plymouth Sub elevators at Webberville and Grand Ledge, the elevator on the MQT at Newaygo, and the other trains which come off the LSRC and MMRR (and HESR?) at Flint.
It sounds like also that the new operating plan leaves out the K-trains from Detroit, those being the Coke pair and Steel Slab trains. It appears as though that traffic will become blocks on the merch trains, or at least they're attempting to do that.
On "How We Work and Why", it is unfortunate that the book really isn't available. It was mostly an in-house publication, so one's best bet is probably Ebay or find a CN employee who was given a copy and is willing to let it go or lend it out. Much has been written about Harrison's past work, much of it much more insightful than "aghh he cut things!!!!". There's good and bad, but at the end of the day, honestly it isn't armageddon: a lot of these changes are for the better.
The "land barge" concept seems to have been borrowed from William Deramus's playbook, consider the oversize freights that used to operate on CGW and KCS.
Greyhound....great observation about the "self congradulatory" nature of the book. That is the perfect description, but the words failed me.
I received a call from the local library and EHH's book is not available thru inter library loan system. The libraries which have the book refused to participate (and send their copy), which is within their right. No doubt the rarity and high value leads to such a decision.
On the other hand Northwestern University has a copy, probably in their excellent transportation library. So, the next time I attend a Sandhouse Gang gathering, I will probably head in early to take a look at it.
Interesting to hear that CSX has added a second train (Q380). One of the points of EHH philosophy is "cost containment" which the authors differentiate from "cost cutting". CSX seems to have moved in the recent past to running "land barges" but does this symbolize a review of that philosophy? What "costs" are accrued operating a 200 plus train rather than having two smaller trains? The fluidity of the system has to be compromised.
MP173I also checked the pricing and was stunned by the $200 price tag. So, I went to my local library and ordered the book thru the Inter Library Loan program. It is not in yet, but am confident it will arrive soon. Typically, the cost is $3 for this service, but the librarian cautioned me that there were limited books available and they might retrieve the book from a Canadian library and the cost might include shipping both ways. In googling the title, I came across a pdf version of the book "SwitchPoints" which was written by several consultants who implemented the "culture change" at CN. I am about half way thru the book. It deals primarily with Behavioral Science changes implemented at CN.
Well we're on the same heading because I'm also reading "Switch Points" after finding "How We Work and Why" basically unavailable.
"Switch Points" is interesting albiet being a self congratulatory work for the consulting firm.
It deals with things such as how you motivate a diesel mechanic who comes to work every morning year after year and fixes locomotives. You want him/her to be motivated to do a good job. And most folks will want to do a good job. But how do you keep that motivation going? One thing you don't do is insist on fast above all else. Fast above all else means the locomotive will be back in the shop soon. You want the mechanic to fix it right the first time. How do you motivate that?
"Swtich Points" deals with that problem. Hint: You make sure the mechanic knows he/she is appreciated and valued.
Hunter did order all consultants fired on his first day in charge. This firm worked its way back by demonstrating value. Mr. Harrison was willing to listen and it worked out.
MP173 Third question/comment...Q368 is a giant train. I was stopped recently at a grade cross (Meridian Rd going up the Suman Hill) and was amazed at the length of the train...over 240 cars, mostly loads. Yesterday's had 20,000 tons per scanner chatter. At what point does that train gain a second section under the EHH regime?
Third question/comment...Q368 is a giant train. I was stopped recently at a grade cross (Meridian Rd going up the Suman Hill) and was amazed at the length of the train...over 240 cars, mostly loads. Yesterday's had 20,000 tons per scanner chatter. At what point does that train gain a second section under the EHH regime?
Q380 started operating last weekend to run some of the traffic that has been on Q368.
An "expensive model collector"
Greyhound:I also checked the pricing and was stunned by the $200 price tag. So, I went to my local library and ordered the book thru the Inter Library Loan program. It is not in yet, but am confident it will arrive soon.
Typically, the cost is $3 for this service, but the librarian cautioned me that there were limited books available and they might retrieve the book from a Canadian library and the cost might include shipping both ways.
In googling the title, I came across a pdf version of the book "SwitchPoints" which was written by several consultants who implemented the "culture change" at CN. I am about half way thru the book. It deals primarily with Behavioral Science changes implemented at CN.
The book indicates EHH was initially anti consultant but the group made him an offer he couldnt refuse. If changes could not be documented (cost savings double the cost) on three tests, there would be no charge for the pilot programs. Two of the three showed immediate results with savings over 200% of the cost and the third resulted in savings but not at the double threshold.
One attitude adjustment was called "Dressed and Ready" in which workers were expected to be ready to work at their assigned time on duty rather than show up at that time. Historically, the book reports, workers would report on duty, but not be prepared to work...thus losing up to 30 minutes (or more) preparing to work (socializing, coffee, etc). Another was a proceedural change in checking hand brakes before leaving terminals. Small details led to higher productivity.
I see this in my employer and how my inattention to detail (communicating) can lead to misunderstandings and "issues". While the book does not provide details in how the trains are operated, it does go into detail into how changes were made in the culture of CN.
Of course, this book was written by those who directed the implementation...so it is going to give their version of the story. One point made was that managers who resisted the change were either assigned to other tasks in the organization or dismissed if their attitudes were not felt to be recoverable.
Dry reading, but an interesting view into the culture shift.
SaturnaliaSeriously: if you read How We Work and Why, you'd understand exactly why Harrison does what he does, and why it drives the resuts that it does.
Saturnalia: Your entire post was great.
I'd like to read "How We Work and Why", but the only source for the book I know, Amazon, lists its cost as $199.99. They need to make an ebook edition available and who do we see about that?
I know Trains is in the publishing business. Would they consider it if they might make a buck doing it?
Third question/comment...Q368 is a giant train. I was stopped recently at a grade cross (Meridian Rd going up the Suman Hill) and was amazed at the length of the train...over 240 cars, mostly loads. Yesterday's had 20,000 tons per scanner chatter. At what point does that train gain a second section under the EHH regime? Also...what is the blocking pattern for that train? At what point are direct Chicago trains for points past Williards planned and built? It seems the tonnage is there.
Thanks for detailed analysis. Refreshing to hear facts, rather than emotion.
Saturnalia Harrison wants to shut down Stanley, already has.
Harrison wants to shut down Stanley, already has.
Stanley has not been shut down, the HUMP has. The yard is still in use.
Saturnalia First: But the B&O is shorter! Answer: The B&O is about the same length. It's west-then-south via GR or south-then-west via the B&O. Fun part is it takes one crew to get from DET or FLT to GR and one more to get to Chicago. It takes three crews to go from FLT or DET to Chicago, becuase of the crew change at Toledo and Garrett. Additionally, they're not switching at Toledo, so chop off a day's wait time also, ESPECIALLY if Flint and Detroit pre-block for when those trains get to GR.
First: But the B&O is shorter!
Answer: The B&O is about the same length. It's west-then-south via GR or south-then-west via the B&O. Fun part is it takes one crew to get from DET or FLT to GR and one more to get to Chicago. It takes three crews to go from FLT or DET to Chicago, becuase of the crew change at Toledo and Garrett. Additionally, they're not switching at Toledo, so chop off a day's wait time also, ESPECIALLY if Flint and Detroit pre-block for when those trains get to GR.
Well, sort of. If the train is over 10K tons, it needs helpers at Wells. There is a third crew, along with another set of locomotives. Eastbounds used to struggle east of GR as well, both at Thornapple and Ann Pere. The PM is far from flat, or straight. Also, it is not like Barr to Toledo can't be done with one crew, it has been done before.
Saturnalia Meanwhile, capacity isn't free on the B&O. CSX has encountered issues, particularly closer to Chicago. They can't afford to run too many more trains that way, but at some point they're going to want to run more for increases in overall traffic, especially intermodal. Why let mixed trains going to Michigan get in your way? In return, you get a few opened up slots on the B&O. - The B&O has some pressure taken off, good for a line operating at near-capacity
Meanwhile, capacity isn't free on the B&O. CSX has encountered issues, particularly closer to Chicago. They can't afford to run too many more trains that way, but at some point they're going to want to run more for increases in overall traffic, especially intermodal. Why let mixed trains going to Michigan get in your way?
In return, you get a few opened up slots on the B&O.
- The B&O has some pressure taken off, good for a line operating at near-capacity
The issue with that argument is there is very little issues with congestion on the B&O side these days. The congestion comes into play on the B&OCT west of Pine Junction. Running stuff on the PM doesn't do anything to help that. In some ways in hurts your options. Garrett crews are qualified on both the Porter Branch and the IHB and can use that as a secondary route to Barr if needed. You don't have that flexiblility going to/from Michigan. You are also dependent on the NS to run the Michigan traffic between CP 501 and CP 482, running to and from Garrett CSX controls its own route.
It is kinda interesting to me how everybody seems to think Michigan is doomed. Let me explain.
Harrison wants to shut down Stanley, already has. But that traffic has to go *somewhere*. Walbridge has no way of dealing with it.
Enter the Michigan traffic. The loose carloads to MI were basically all brought into Stanley and humped, with a train to GR, a train to Flint, and a train to Detroit.
Problem is, they were humping cars there, just to hump some again in Willard, and some again in Cinci, and class more still in Chicago.
Solution? Flat-switching in a central Michigan location. Enter Wyoming Yard in Grand Rapids, MI, which is a massive, and well-laid-out flat switching yard.
Here's how it works: reroute Flint and Detroit traffic to Grand Rapids. Stanley no longer needs to class these cars - including the GR cars, as you'll see in a minute. Score 1 for Harrison, he closes the wasteful second yard in Toledo. Autorack switching boo-yah.
So now all of the loose carload traffic from Michigan comes to Grand Rapids, where it can be flat-switched. About half of the traffic from Michigan goes to Chicago, so 326/327 can "flush" that traffic. All of that Flint and Detroit stuff which used to go via Toledo and the B&O now doesn't have to touch those lines, freeing up capacity for more intermodal and such down there - brilliant!
Grand Rapids might even have enough cars heading west to build a train for Barr Yard, as they've always done, as well as a train for the BRC. Maybe.
Then on the eastbound side, GR could build a train for Willard (eastward stuff) and Cinci (southward stuff). Dispatch these trains to Walbridge in Toledo, where you add in the blocks Walbridge has collected for Cinci and Willard. I'm guessing that'll include a bit of mixed stuff along with autoracks. Crew change and this block swap and now you have traffic moving out of Michigan without needing an intermediate switch in Toledo. That is cost-control.
Central to this question, it would make use of the Michigan Lines.
With the Flint traffic due to come to GR starting next week, it seems like this operating philosophy is being adopted. Much of the above is a rumor/speculation, but I'd give it a lot of credit because of how it'd help everything work out.
Now I should address a couple of questions which always come up.
Second: Michigan is dead to CSX
Answer: not really. CSX in Michigan, while not low-density, is a great feeder loop for CSX. North and west of Plymouth, CSX maintains a decent customer base (Especially on the Plymouth Sub and around Grand Rapids), which alone is a good sum. Then the shortlines feed tons of traffic, which all CSX has to do is cobble into trains and send it off. CSX gets traffic from: WMI, MS, GRE, CPMY, MQT, GRE, GDLK, JAIL, GLC, LSRC, HESR (via LSRC), and some Detroit stuff. That's "free cars" CSX doesn't have to do anything to but shuffle them into outbound trains and move - a Class Is delight. Add to that grain elevators online at Grand Ledge and Webberville. Add to that the grain trains they get from the Lake State and occasionally MQT and GLC.
Basically, there has always been a great amount of traffic on what remains of the CSX in Michigan, with north of Plymouth being the only frizzled branch. Sure they dumped all of the northern lines, but those are obviously best suited to shortline control, with their lower costs and customer service. Just feed CSX and cars at the end of the line.
So here's the ticket: what we're already seeing is Harrion's philosophy of operation. I recommend anybody who can pick up a copy of his book "How We Work and Why", the "Harrison Bible" of sorts. He's got five keys to precision railroading: Service, Cost Control (note not "Cost Cutting"), Asset Utilization, Safety and People. Now I know many readers are highly skeptical of his model and that is fine, but notice the key difference between cost control and cost cutting, along with asset management.
Cost control means you cut what you don't need, but don't cut just to cut *something*. And Asset utilization means don't let what you've got go to waste.
Flow this back into this whole Michigan argument. The lines do not cost the company to run. They earn a profit, I have that on good authority. So why cut them? They're not running losses.
How about asset utilization? All of the lines in question have CTC, except one stretch from Lake Odessa to Lansing. CWR, the works, really. Those are hugely expensive assets to not use to their potential.
Previously, CSX attempted to run as much traffic on as few lines as possible.
RUN THE MICHIGAN TRAFFIC IN MICHIGAN: you've got the lines, the yards, and the signals to do so.
So this is a long-winded response, I appreciate anybody who bothered to read this whole thing, but I hope I added some new dimensioning to this discussion. It really isn't dead. And Harrison's philosophy is probably the best thing to happen to these lines in nearly two decades.
So here's what Harrison and CSX get if they realign the operating plan as I discussed early on:
- Stanley can close without causing congestion elsewhere.
- Michigan traffic saves time in many cases
- Blocking of outbound Michigan traffic in Grand Rapids will allow easy blocking at Walbridge, allowing trains to head out for elsewhere on the system with a variety of traffic, without needing to re-class everything as often.
- The lines are there, so use it
- Service, Cost Control, Asset Utilization, Safety & People.
Seriously: if you read How We Work and Why, you'd understand exactly why Harrison does what he does, and why it drives the resuts that it does.
Norm48327 Do you really think two coal trains a day is enough to keep the Grand Rapids sub alive? I doubt the economics support that.
Do you really think two coal trains a day is enough to keep the Grand Rapids sub alive? I doubt the economics support that.
I don't. From what I have been told, the coal trains pay the bills, all else is profit.
Norm48327Ever stop to think that's why so many malls have been declared "dead"? The percentages requested can make or break a retailer. Hence, they move out and no other retailer is willing or financially able to accept the lessor's (There's that legal word again, Paul.) terms. Many of the surviving retailers (Sears, Kmart, Macy's, and a few others are no longer looking for property. They are selling theirs in false hopes of survival.) are building stand alone stores in growing neighborhoods. The beat goes on. Times are-a-changin'.
I didn't say I agreed with the practice but it's a neat deal if you can get away with it legally and yes I had it done to me and it was a big reason I walked away from the mall I would have been leasing from. I wasn't going to sign up for that crap......BTW, "Edible Arrangements" leased my former space (there is no longer a hole took them 18 months), they won't last there unless they do boku volume business.
MP173 ... Is the Monon line safe? One would think so, with the new iron ore pellet plant at Reynolds, but who knows. Regarding Grand Rapids sub, CP is running about 10 trains daily on the NS...who much work (sidings, etc) would be needed to move that to the CSX line in case of a sale? ed
...
Is the Monon line safe? One would think so, with the new iron ore pellet plant at Reynolds, but who knows.
Regarding Grand Rapids sub, CP is running about 10 trains daily on the NS...who much work (sidings, etc) would be needed to move that to the CSX line in case of a sale?
The Reynolds iorn ore pellet plant is shut down.
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/10/18-minn-iron-ore-close
CP used to run over the GR sub before NS.
BaltACDTwo coal trains a day is on the order of 260 revenue car loads. Everybody thinks Johnny Jones and is 2 cars a day, 3 days a week are sufficient to require service on a line so[/sarcasm] so two coal trains a day should be more than enough
I hear what you are saying, Chuck. Same applies to the Saginaw Sub. Just barely enough traffic to justify keeping it. Harrison may have other thoughts. Michigan is no longer a major player in the railroad scheme. CSX and predecessors used to have the lion's share of trackage here. Now they are sucking the hind one becaus they have sold or leased most of their trackage.
I'm still wondering how the corpporation can justify keeping the small amount of trackage in the thumb and around Sarnia Ontario while having to use trackage rights on CN to access it. It's mind boggling but above my pay grade to analyze corporate minds.
Along with the CSX signal maintainers I know we are waiting with bated breath for the eventual disposition of the lines. One of my friends doesn't have to worry much. He is retiring soon. The other guy may be forced to move.
Norm48327Do you really think two coal trains a day is enough to keep the Grand Rapids sub alive? I doubt the economics support that.
Two coal trains a day is on the order of 260 revenue car loads.
Everybody thinks Johnny Jones and is 2 cars a day, 3 days a week are sufficient to require service on a line so[/sarcasm] so two coal trains a day should be more than enough.
MP173 Retail brick stores are dropping quickly. Even grocery stores are closing. Here in NW Indiana and suburban Chicago a 300 store co-op (Central Grocers) is shutting down including about 40 company owned stores (Stracks and Ultra). Are on line grocery shopping affecting these stores that much, are the big companies (Kroger, Walmart, Safeway) digging in, or is America finally going on a diet? Regarding the CSX Grand Rapids sub...there is typically at least one loaded coal train daily on the line, sometimes 2 per day. A dispatcher of the line indicated there was grain moving on the line also, but I havent seen him in quite some time. Is the Monon line safe? One would think so, with the new iron ore pellet plant at Reynolds, but who knows. Regarding Grand Rapids sub, CP is running about 10 trains daily on the NS...who much work (sidings, etc) would be needed to move that to the CSX line in case of a sale?
Retail brick stores are dropping quickly. Even grocery stores are closing. Here in NW Indiana and suburban Chicago a 300 store co-op (Central Grocers) is shutting down including about 40 company owned stores (Stracks and Ultra). Are on line grocery shopping affecting these stores that much, are the big companies (Kroger, Walmart, Safeway) digging in, or is America finally going on a diet?
Regarding the CSX Grand Rapids sub...there is typically at least one loaded coal train daily on the line, sometimes 2 per day. A dispatcher of the line indicated there was grain moving on the line also, but I havent seen him in quite some time.
This may sound stupid but do you think I would buy a head of lettuce on line that may arrive brown and wilted? I think not. Hands on at the grocery store is a much better bet on getting fresh. Home delivery of potentinally spoiled vegetables is not desirable.
The demise of those companies who can't compete is inevetable and the fault lies strictly in the hands of the CEO's.Unfortunately, Walmart has a plan and most of the others don't.
Wal mart? There was a day when the CEO's strived to make their companies profitable in hope their reward would match their performance.
That no longer applies. they are only looking out for "number one" and the rewards they can reap while taking the corporation into the financial abyss.
Boyd Said it before,,, and I'll say it again. The population keeps increasing,,, and thus RR traffic will increase here and there in following decades and centuries. And since its such a pita to get ROW and lay down a new track, why don't they have a stop on pulling up tracks. Some day probably after I have passed on, the cost of petroleum will increase as it gets harder to extract. And if there isn't a way to cheapen hydrogen fuel cells,,, people could be forced to use more rail transportation. Electric cars and battery storage is improving but at what cost? Leave the tracks there. Don't develop the ROW. Preserve the corridor for later generations and save the them from going through the legal hassles.
Said it before,,, and I'll say it again. The population keeps increasing,,, and thus RR traffic will increase here and there in following decades and centuries. And since its such a pita to get ROW and lay down a new track, why don't they have a stop on pulling up tracks. Some day probably after I have passed on, the cost of petroleum will increase as it gets harder to extract. And if there isn't a way to cheapen hydrogen fuel cells,,, people could be forced to use more rail transportation. Electric cars and battery storage is improving but at what cost? Leave the tracks there. Don't develop the ROW. Preserve the corridor for later generations and save the them from going through the legal hassles.
I don't think any of the discussed lines are in danger of being abandoned. What is being discussed are some of these lines being sold to a short line.
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