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Class 1's planned maintenance report for FY 17

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Posted by IslandMan on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:37 PM

Norm48327

 

 
Paul_D_North_Jr

I understand that the NS fire on the trestle was caused by sparks from a welder that weren't noticed and put out becasue the 'fire watch' wasn't done as it should have been, IIRC.  Same thing could have (and has) happened with creosoted wood trestle timbers.  So it wasn't a flaw specific to the polymer ties/ timbers.

- PDN.

 

True, but I was led to believe they burned hotter and faster.

 

 

Wood and plastic burn in different ways. Large section pieces of lumber, such as a tie, tend to carbonize to charcoal which then slowly smoulders away.  Polythene and other plastics melt when they burn. On a wooden trestle burning plastic ties could send streams of fire down from the track onto the structure, making the fire worse.

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Posted by IslandMan on Sunday, April 16, 2017 7:05 PM

mudchicken

No - Limited application. The science needs to evolve some more, especially where the tie finds itself in some limited tension. 

 

I wonder if the wrong approach is being used - trying to find a use for recycled common plastics (mainly polythene with some polystyrene) rather than considering how to replicate the engineering properties of good-quality hardwood.

In Japan, many ties are made from a material called FFU Neolumber. This is a rigid polyurethane foam reinforced with long glass fibres. FFU ties have been in use for about 30 years and show little evidence of deterioration after decades of service. FFU ties can be sawn and drilled like wood, are strong and light in weight and attenuate vibration well. There is of course one major obstacle to the wider use of FFU ties - high cost.

Although polythene, polystyrene, polypropylene, nylon etc. make up the greatest proportion of plastic waste the most awkward materials to recycle are fibre-reinforced composites. These do not have a high energy content so are not attractive as fuels. Unlike (e.g.) polythene they cannot be melted and remoulded. Because fibre-reinforced composites have a high strength-to-weight ratio they are increasingly used in automotive and other transport applications, and so the volume of these materials heading for landfill will pose a growing problem in the future.

It might be possible to shred fibre-reinforced composite waste in such a way that a reasonable fibre length is retained. By binding this shredded waste with a small quantity of fresh polyurethane something resembling FFU could be produced at a lower cost.

 

 

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Posted by Norm48327 on Sunday, April 16, 2017 5:57 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

I understand that the NS fire on the trestle was caused by sparks from a welder that weren't noticed and put out becasue the 'fire watch' wasn't done as it should have been, IIRC.  Same thing could have (and has) happened with creosoted wood trestle timbers.  So it wasn't a flaw specific to the polymer ties/ timbers.

- PDN.

True, but I was led to believe they burned hotter and faster.

Norm


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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, April 16, 2017 5:22 PM

I understand that the NS fire on the trestle was caused by sparks from a welder that weren't noticed and put out becasue the 'fire watch' wasn't done as it should have been, IIRC.  Same thing could have (and has) happened with creosoted wood trestle timbers.  So it wasn't a flaw specific to the polymer ties/ timbers.

- PDN. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by billio on Sunday, April 16, 2017 6:55 AM

IslandMan

Is the market for polymer ties healthy?

No.  It's quarantined due to the Asian Flu.

 

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Posted by Norm48327 on Sunday, April 16, 2017 5:23 AM

mudchicken

No - Limited application. The science needs to evolve some more, especially where the tie finds itself in some limited tension.

Given NS's very bad experience with them catching fire several years ago I'm surprised the composite ties are still in production.

Norm


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Posted by mudchicken on Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:50 PM

No - Limited application. The science needs to evolve some more, especially where the tie finds itself in some limited tension. 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by IslandMan on Saturday, April 15, 2017 5:53 PM

A minor observation - polymer ties are mentioned only in the entry for CSX (that for UP does not mention the type of tie).  Is the market for polymer ties healthy?

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Class 1's planned maintenance report for FY 17
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:29 PM

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