Trains.com

Sand for roads?

2039 views
12 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2007
  • 194 posts
Posted by nyc#25 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:20 AM

However, most road salt is comes by rail.  It certainly does

here in Philadelphia.

Tags: road salt
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:33 AM

The local co-gen used to haul out truckloads of by-product to area farmers, who spread it in their fields.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

RME
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 2,073 posts
Posted by RME on Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:32 AM

CMStPnP
I actually thought before that all blew up in the press that asphalt firms desired coal cinders and ash for mixing into asphalt but I might be mistaken there.

Fly ash is a well-established 'mineral filler' for asphalt mixtures.  (Of course, pig poop is also being touted as a material to replace some or all the binder in asphalt, so perhaps progress in adaptive re-use in this field is not always quite forward...)

RME
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • 2,073 posts
Posted by RME on Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:25 AM

SD70M-2Dude
aegrotatio

A native Pennsylvanian told me they use cinders on the roads when coal mining operations are in the vicinity.

Interesting, I thought coal cinders/ash are classified as hazardous waste now.  Just ask the operators of the S.S. Badger.

I think there is a difference between ash from stoker firing and bottom ash from pulverized-coal plants (which appears to be the likeliest material cities would use for road grit).  Believe it or not, there is an official organization that covers this (the American Coal Ash Association Educational Foundation, in Michigan) and you can go to http://www.coalashfacts.org/ for more propaganda information.  (Or you can join me at the World of Coal Ash convention in Lexington, second week in May...)

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • 711 posts
Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:24 AM

CMStPnP

   I actually thought before that all blew up in the press that asphalt firms desired coal cinders and ash for mixing into asphalt but I might be mistaken there.

I don't know about asphalt, but the ash can be used in making cement.  The coal-fired power plants in my area sell their ash, and most if not all is shipped out by rail in covered hoppers.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:14 AM

SD70M-2Dude
Interesting, I thought coal cinders/ash are classified as hazardous waste now.  Just ask the operators of the S.S. Badger.



I think that has something to do with the Great Lakes Treaty because they were dumping the ash and cinders in the lake instead of docking and removing them.    So whenever you dump in the environment, people start to get extreme with their descriptions.

   I actually thought before that all blew up in the press that asphalt firms desired coal cinders and ash for mixing into asphalt but I might be mistaken there.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: St. Paul, Minnesota
  • 2,116 posts
Posted by Boyd on Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:13 AM

Many years ago before I was born the town used tailings left over from burning coal to put on the roads in the winter. But they were jagged enough to puncture bicycle tires so they stopped using them. 

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • 711 posts
Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:40 PM

aegrotatio

A native Pennsylvanian told me they use cinders on the roads when coal mining operations are in the vicinity.

Interesting, I thought coal cinders/ash are classified as hazardous waste now.  Just ask the operators of the S.S. Badger.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • 1,112 posts
Posted by aegrotatio on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:24 PM

A native Pennsylvanian told me they use cinders on the roads when coal mining operations are in the vicinity.

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:17 PM

In Denver, loose sand and fines are cheap. Frac sand, rip-rap and aggregate generally come from 100+ miles out. Some aggregate does come out of the mountains, but it is a long way from any active rail line.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:55 PM

Road salt, on the other hand, does travel by rail.

As Balt points out, most sand used on the roads comes from local borrow pits.

One city near here used to use crushed limestone instead.  Worked good, but the salt and limestone together bonded very nicely and they had to physically scrape it off the streets in the spring...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:51 PM

CMStPnP
It's kind of interesting to me that the rails have landed the sand for transport for fracking but have not attempted to win or have not won in large part the sand for transport for roads in the winter that many public works departments apply.    Thats all trucked in?    Or am I just missing where the rail distribution center is?

I believe road sand can be just about any kind of sand and most of it is locally sourced.

Frac Sand is of a particular consistnacy and is not available where it it used thu it has to be transported to the using location - some times many, many miles and railroading fits the needs.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Sand for roads?
Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:47 PM

It's kind of interesting to me that the rails have landed the sand for transport for fracking but have not attempted to win or have not won in large part the sand for transport for roads in the winter that many public works departments apply.    Thats all trucked in?    Or am I just missing where the rail distribution center is?

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy