I'm very curious why 2816 is sitting dormant in a Shop in Calgary and what affiliation Harrison Hunter has with it.
LOL - Someone is pretty creative (and has too much time on their hands . . . ). And C. Keurig the coffeemaker is more critical to operations and is probably the one actually responsible for the failures . . .
- PDN.
Understand a non-contract 'blood bath' is taking place in Jacksonville today. No idea of the numbers being terminated. Nothing is safe!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Don and Paul,
I'm taking my usual "wait-and-see" attitude here. It's going to be difficult for Harrison to work his magic given that CSX is not a "point A to point B railroad" like the previous three he headed up. Too many spiders spinning the CSX web for it to be that, and the income from the coal lines would be lost should he try to make the triangle the sole source of revenue while selling off the lines that have traditionally provided substantial income for CSX. Today's politics are, or should be, a huge factor in his decisions. Under Obama's "war on coal" shedding thos lines may have been appropriate; not so much now that there is a new sheriff in town.
Given the changes in government coal is not dead and Harrison would be a fool to ignore that and sell those lines to short lines simply to seek short term profit. Sure, the bottom line can temporarilly be made to look better by selling off assets. Whether that leads to long term results remains to be seen. I will give him the benefit of the doubt as there are inefficencies in every system and if he can ferrett those inefficiencies out and eliminate them without creating havoc and destroying employee's lives more power to him.
Perhaps his ultimate goal is a true "transcontinental" railroad. No one knows that at this point and we can't read his mind.
Harrison's track record clearly shows he is "an investor's man" and is not concerned in the least about those who make profits possible through the sweat of their brow.
Far too many time in my lifetime have I seen CEO's get multi-millions in rewards while destroying a corporation. Think Sears, Montgomery Ward, and many other companies.
I have no dog in this fight. The above is simply my observation.
Norm
LOL Or the Emperor's new clothes ?
Perhaps we'll again see a beautiful scheme (theory) murdered by a gang of brutal facts (and laws/ policies).
Paul_D_North_JrShippers and STB will never let it happen unless a credible operating and business plan can be submitted which shows good benefits that can't be achieved any other way - i.e., such as by interline agreements. That's per the STB rules resulting from the similar previous proposed end-to-end merger of BNSF with CN circa 2000.
But, but, EHH has magic beans! ...or was it pixie dust?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
BaltACD jeffhergert EHH may not be a friend to the agreement people, but he is definitely no friend of the non-agreement (managers) people. They are the easiest to get rid of. Jeff Especially since CSX over the past decade or more has done about everything possible to discourage 'contract' people from accepting 'promotion' into non-contract positions. They didn't want 'managers' to have any seniority to fall back on when it came time to be fired. At the 'entry level' non-contract positions most employees took a pay decrease for their chance to 'grab the brass ring' in stepping from contract to non-contract. Some fools still went for the empty promises of non-contract positions.
jeffhergert EHH may not be a friend to the agreement people, but he is definitely no friend of the non-agreement (managers) people. They are the easiest to get rid of. Jeff
Jeff
Especially since CSX over the past decade or more has done about everything possible to discourage 'contract' people from accepting 'promotion' into non-contract positions. They didn't want 'managers' to have any seniority to fall back on when it came time to be fired. At the 'entry level' non-contract positions most employees took a pay decrease for their chance to 'grab the brass ring' in stepping from contract to non-contract. Some fools still went for the empty promises of non-contract positions.
A year or two back, some who were looking to go into managment in my corner of the world, were being told that to be considered they had to give up their craft seniority. One guy who had accepted a management position shortly before this policy started was asked if he would still give up his seniority. (He didn't.) I don't know if this policy is still in effect, but I don't hear of as many people looking at going into supervisory positions as I used to.
jeffhergertEHH may not be a friend to the agreement people, but he is definitely no friend of the non-agreement (managers) people. They are the easiest to get rid of. Jeff
Ulrich I think so too, although not with CN or CP.. Discussions are probably already underway with BNSF or UP. The "announcement" will come after alot of the groundwork has already been done. They have to go fast, knowing that they have a business friendly president in the White House who is likely to be a one term wonder. EHH knows he's got a small window of opportunity in which to make it happen.
I think so too, although not with CN or CP.. Discussions are probably already underway with BNSF or UP. The "announcement" will come after alot of the groundwork has already been done. They have to go fast, knowing that they have a business friendly president in the White House who is likely to be a one term wonder. EHH knows he's got a small window of opportunity in which to make it happen.
Somewhere else, I don't remember if on here or another site, there was talk that BNSF or UP might be a target in a few years. His release from the CP has a time limit (4 years I think) stipulation that keeps him from the two western carriers. After that, he can (try) gobble up any one.
I've heard the sandhouse rumors that UP is worried about EHH at CSX. I'm not sure why, unless it's that CSX was always thought to be the one UP would marry up with in the final round of mergers. EHH may not be a friend to the agreement people, but he is definitely no friend of the non-agreement (managers) people. They are the easiest to get rid of.
Shippers and STB will never let it happen unless a credible operating and business plan can be submitted which shows good benefits that can't be achieved any other way - i.e., such as by interline agreements. That's per the STB rules resulting from the similar previous proposed end-to-end merger of BNSF with CN circa 2000. CSX achieving a low OR isn't in the shippers' interest or of no concern to the STB, respectively.
- PDN. .
I am patiently waiting for merger proposals. Believe that is EHH's next big play and upcoming soon. Something's coming down the pike!
Ulrich Sheesh, after reading that you'd almost expect him to have horns and fangs..
Sheesh, after reading that you'd almost expect him to have horns and fangs..
I dunno - after reading many of the accounts (many being third party, to boot), I get the feeling many of his former employees feel the same way.
I also get the feeling that those same folks would probably believe there's a mispelling in Balt's quote:
Some context: In Harrison’s last gig, ruining the Canadian Pacific railroad,...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Peoples World In an ordinary year, CEOs like Kent and Broussard might be frontrunners for any CEO pay dishonors. But we do not live in ordinary times. This year, one grasping top exec has blown away the competition. Meet our Mr. Corporate Greed 2017: Hunter Harrison, the newly hired chief exec at the railroad powerhouse CSX. The 72-year-old Harrison didn’t come cheap. To take the reins at CSX, he demanded a four-year stock-and-cash pay package that his fans on the CSX board calculated would cost $230 million — and CSX officialdom initially pegged at an even grander $300 million. Some context: In Harrison’s last gig, running the Canadian Pacific railroad, he pulled down $89 million over the four-year span that ended in 2015. Harrison’s CEO predecessor at CSX made a mere $39.8 million over that same four-year stretch. Harrison still faces a possible obstacle on the way to his jaw-dropping jackpot. Shareholders will be taking an advisory vote on his pay plan at the CSX annual meeting later this spring. Harrison says he’ll quit if shareholders don’t give him a thumbs up. That thumbs up, industry observers feel, shouldn’t be much of a problem. Large investors like hedge fund mover and shaker Paul Hilal see Harrison as a railroad man with a magic touch. They credit him for “turning around” the lackluster operation at Canadian Pacific and see no reason why he won’t be able to generate an equally lucrative restart at CSX. How did Harrison achieve that “turnaround”? By mimicking the infamous “Chainsaw Al” Dunlap. At his previous CEO stop, Canadian Pacific, Harrison cut his workforce by 34 percent. Harrison, for his part, signaled he’ll take his basic Canadian Pacific game plan to CSX — and that prospect has the unions that represent 22,000 of CSX’s 27,000-employee workforce much more than slightly apprehensive. Harrison’s previous corporate “success” has come on the backs of cashiered workers. Business analysts see similarly stunning job losses in store for CSX. “We expect emphasis now to be placed on cost cutting,” notes Ben Hartford, a transportation expert at Robert W. Baird & Co. But the new CSX CEO doesn’t rate as a pure one-trick pony. Harrison does have other strategies for cutting costs besides killing jobs. He has a particular fondness for running longer trains. During Harrison’s tenure at Canadian Pacific, the number of cars in an average train bounced up by 25 percent. So the next time you find yourself twiddling your thumbs at a railroad crossing, waiting for an incredibly long CSX freight train to rumble by, keep in mind that your wait does serve a definite purpose. You’re helping to make Hunter Harrison the richest railroad executive since America’s original Robber Baron days. But also keep in mind that you’re only losing time. Thousands of other Americans are likely losing the best job they ever had.
In an ordinary year, CEOs like Kent and Broussard might be frontrunners for any CEO pay dishonors. But we do not live in ordinary times. This year, one grasping top exec has blown away the competition. Meet our Mr. Corporate Greed 2017: Hunter Harrison, the newly hired chief exec at the railroad powerhouse CSX.
The 72-year-old Harrison didn’t come cheap. To take the reins at CSX, he demanded a four-year stock-and-cash pay package that his fans on the CSX board calculated would cost $230 million — and CSX officialdom initially pegged at an even grander $300 million.
Some context: In Harrison’s last gig, running the Canadian Pacific railroad, he pulled down $89 million over the four-year span that ended in 2015. Harrison’s CEO predecessor at CSX made a mere $39.8 million over that same four-year stretch.
Harrison still faces a possible obstacle on the way to his jaw-dropping jackpot. Shareholders will be taking an advisory vote on his pay plan at the CSX annual meeting later this spring. Harrison says he’ll quit if shareholders don’t give him a thumbs up.
That thumbs up, industry observers feel, shouldn’t be much of a problem. Large investors like hedge fund mover and shaker Paul Hilal see Harrison as a railroad man with a magic touch. They credit him for “turning around” the lackluster operation at Canadian Pacific and see no reason why he won’t be able to generate an equally lucrative restart at CSX.
How did Harrison achieve that “turnaround”? By mimicking the infamous “Chainsaw Al” Dunlap. At his previous CEO stop, Canadian Pacific, Harrison cut his workforce by 34 percent.
Harrison, for his part, signaled he’ll take his basic Canadian Pacific game plan to CSX — and that prospect has the unions that represent 22,000 of CSX’s 27,000-employee workforce much more than slightly apprehensive. Harrison’s previous corporate “success” has come on the backs of cashiered workers.
Business analysts see similarly stunning job losses in store for CSX. “We expect emphasis now to be placed on cost cutting,” notes Ben Hartford, a transportation expert at Robert W. Baird & Co.
But the new CSX CEO doesn’t rate as a pure one-trick pony. Harrison does have other strategies for cutting costs besides killing jobs. He has a particular fondness for running longer trains. During Harrison’s tenure at Canadian Pacific, the number of cars in an average train bounced up by 25 percent.
So the next time you find yourself twiddling your thumbs at a railroad crossing, waiting for an incredibly long CSX freight train to rumble by, keep in mind that your wait does serve a definite purpose. You’re helping to make Hunter Harrison the richest railroad executive since America’s original Robber Baron days.
But also keep in mind that you’re only losing time. Thousands of other Americans are likely losing the best job they ever had.
Nevermind... can't change the mind of people who love this guy...
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
n012944 It will be interesting to see if he can make this a reality. http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/20/csx-surge-after-new-ceo-says-profits-will-increase-by-25-percent.html
It will be interesting to see if he can make this a reality.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/20/csx-surge-after-new-ceo-says-profits-will-increase-by-25-percent.html
If coal keeps up, no problem. Lets see what NS says in a couple days
Let's tackle the things he said one at a time.
Bypassing terminals to cut 2-3 days off Chicago to FL transit times.
Does CSX really have 2-3 handlings to cut out? On NS, the typical merchandise trip moves about 500 miles and has 1.75 intermediate handlings (block swaps count as a handling). I would suspect CSX to be very similar. The network modeling tools are used to optimize the blocking plan to yield the minimum number of handlings on the network. The train service plan is then designed to move those blocks on the network as efficiently as possible.
If you try to optimize a lane at a time, you wind up with a sub-optimized network. If you're railroad is more-or-less linear, then there really isn't much difference. If it's more web, or even a triangle with a bunch of arms, you could wind up much worse off.
Merchandise train speed between terminals. Now 18 mph, wants 27-28.
Oh, boy. Selkirk to Chicago. No sweat. It's probably in the mid 20s now. On the old L&N? I don't think so. I wonder if he's basing it on the fact that CSX's intermodal speed between terminals is in the high 20s? If so, he HAS to know that speed overweighted by the sheer volume of intermodal trains between the northeast and Chicago, doesn't he?
Faster is better, especially if you can turn crews faster or double up on crew districts, but.... most of the time wasted isn't on the line of road, where trains are really doing the best they can to get up and down the grades, in and out of sidings and through the terminals. Power them up and don't let them get too long and you might squeeze a few mph more out of them - at quite a fuel penalty.
Just a few notes....
Fluid conveyor belt like shipments by customers....couple problems here....
It is pretty rare anyone is switched 7 days a week by csx or any RR, M-F switches for higher volume customers are lucky. Many only see CSX switch 1 or 2 days a week. CSX by this very policy design chops off the begining and the end of the smoothness of the flow of shipments themselves.
Many business are cyclical for countless, real world market and economic reasons and as much as HH wants smooth flow of volume he cannot dictate against real world realities.
Precision scheduled RR. Not going to work on a system like csx as he would desire it. Our shipments are all over the place, out of control in the Southeast, keystone cops like situation. One factor is that there was little to almost no planning for the closure of the Atlanta hump, which given how fast it came after his arrival seems about right. The plan was basically close the hump....not a detailed study of the whole service plan and how to accomodate such a bold change, just do it. I have cars bouncing back and forth and never making their terminal and from insiders, this is a partial result of his precision scheduling. Operating managers are and have been getting fired on the spot for delaying a train off schedule, even for valid reasons or for things totally outside their control. Terminal managers are opting to not pull blocks of cars off trains or not add blocks of cars into trains in their terminal if it could make the train late and put them at risk of getting fired. So the work isn't getting done and trains run from origin terminal A and go to destination terminal B but much of the work in between assigned to the train's service plan isn't accomplished. Seems a bit odd to celebrate timeliness but the customers who pay the freight are not being served. As raw materal piplines get more sluggish, shippers tend to increase shipments to combat the transit problem, this increasses the volume somewhat on the csx system that in many places is already overwhelmed and makes it worse.
Randy Stahl I cannot say anything bad about HUnter, He treated us craft guys well and made us proud to be railroaders. My limited perspective. Randy
I cannot say anything bad about HUnter, He treated us craft guys well and made us proud to be railroaders. My limited perspective.
Randy
Waiting with bated breath for details. Please tell us more.
I cannot say anything bad about HUnter, He treated us craft guys well and made us proud to be railroaders.
My limited perspective.
Non railroader here, so be patient.
I understand the difference between a flat yard and hump yard and have seen both in action. What extra costs are involved with running a hump yard? It seems that once the investment has been made, it would be efficient. What variable costs are involved?At what point is it more efficient to run a hump yard vs flat yard? 1000 cars per day? 1200 per day?
Roughly how many cars can be yarded per hour (or per day) by both methods? Yes, I know...yard configurations determine exact numbers, but what can be done with both?Ed
The only thing Hunter and his hedge fund 'stockholders' want out of CSX is every last short term nickle and dime and then they will dump the wrecked and undercapitalized company quicker than the French TGV record run.
wanswheel Excerpt from Wall Street Journal, Apr. 20 CSX Corp. Chief Executive Hunter Harrison promised changes big and small at the railway, from idling excess locomotives to clearing bottlenecks at major interchanges, in his first public remarks since taking the top job last month. Mr. Harrison said during a call with analysts Thursday that the precision-railroading strategy he implemented at his previous stints running Canada's two largest railroads could help trains run faster along CSX's complicated map in the eastern U.S., which include more interconnected routes and shorter hauls. "It's a pretty drastic change, but a pretty simple model," Mr. Harrison said in an interview. "It's like a football team going from a running attack to a passing attack. It's still football, something you're familiar with, but a different strategy." A 50-year industry veteran known as a turnaround expert, Mr. Harrison said plans are under way to idle about 550 locomotives and 25,000 railcars, and the railroad is considering additional closures. It has already converted four hump yards -- where train cars are sorted for their next stop -- to flat-switching yards, which Mr. Harrison has called more efficient to operate… CSX's challenges include the "spaghetti bowl" of the Eastern rails, called that for the intertwined routes that CSX, Norfolk Southern Corp. and other short-haul freight lines and passenger trains use. Mr. Harrison said that CSX is working to bypass certain terminals that require extra processing. "The way to handle that is to eat the spaghetti and get rid of it," he said. Mr. Harrison also plans to devote attention to Chicago, a sluggish interchange where many rail networks meet, and he hinted at the potential for a partnership with another railroad network that could divert some of its traffic. "Chicago is busting at the seams from a capacity standpoint," he said. "There's opportunities to, maybe, take business out of Chicago that will help the situation, lower our cost and improve our service."
Excerpt from Wall Street Journal, Apr. 20
CSX Corp. Chief Executive Hunter Harrison promised changes big and small at the railway, from idling excess locomotives to clearing bottlenecks at major interchanges, in his first public remarks since taking the top job last month.
Mr. Harrison said during a call with analysts Thursday that the precision-railroading strategy he implemented at his previous stints running Canada's two largest railroads could help trains run faster along CSX's complicated map in the eastern U.S., which include more interconnected routes and shorter hauls.
"It's a pretty drastic change, but a pretty simple model," Mr. Harrison said in an interview. "It's like a football team going from a running attack to a passing attack. It's still football, something you're familiar with, but a different strategy."
A 50-year industry veteran known as a turnaround expert, Mr. Harrison said plans are under way to idle about 550 locomotives and 25,000 railcars, and the railroad is considering additional closures. It has already converted four hump yards -- where train cars are sorted for their next stop -- to flat-switching yards, which Mr. Harrison has called more efficient to operate…
CSX's challenges include the "spaghetti bowl" of the Eastern rails, called that for the intertwined routes that CSX, Norfolk Southern Corp. and other short-haul freight lines and passenger trains use. Mr. Harrison said that CSX is working to bypass certain terminals that require extra processing.
"The way to handle that is to eat the spaghetti and get rid of it," he said.
Mr. Harrison also plans to devote attention to Chicago, a sluggish interchange where many rail networks meet, and he hinted at the potential for a partnership with another railroad network that could divert some of its traffic.
"Chicago is busting at the seams from a capacity standpoint," he said. "There's opportunities to, maybe, take business out of Chicago that will help the situation, lower our cost and improve our service."
Harrison may think he already has the bull by the horns but he's dealing with a railroad that is far diffferent in composition than IC, CN, or CP. No straight line railroading here; no point A to point B. Gather up the loaded cars and get them to their destination. It's not the "spaghetti bowl" you described but a spider web of lines in coal country that once produced tons of revenue for CSX and it's predecesors. Given "the war against coal" the lack of revenue from those lines is going to be a factor in the bottom line unless things change drastically. No way can he shed them without sacrificing the revenue they produce. They may be incidental in his opinion but they are still valuable. It's going to be fun to watch him try to sort things out and determine which lines to keep, lease, or sell
Let's face facts. Harrison is an investor's man. He's looking out for the stockholders, not the employees or customers. That's evidenced by his track record of alienating customers at CN and CP. Many of them went to CSX after he basically told them he didn't want their business. CN is presently eating CP's lunch north of 49. Cn has grabbed a lot of business Hunter thought irrelvant and unprofitable. CN is making profit from that. GM is still not happy with CN due to Harrison's antics and are still using other options including trucking to other railroads.
The demands of the hedge fund masters who are looking for quick profits and the expectation that CSX stockholders will pay Harrison the ransom he demands for leaving CP early are simply indications of an ego gone wild and out of control. Were I a stockholder in CSX I would vote to show him the door with no "participation trophy".
The preceding is personal opinion, but I can't help but think executive salaries are beyond obscene when the leave a corporation in shambles and are handsomely rewarded for doing that. It goes against my grain.
There was a time when CEO's had ethics. That day seems to have disappeared.
Off my rant.
An "expensive model collector"
zugmann How wide spread is the removal of remotes?
How wide spread is the removal of remotes?
From what I hear, most of the major terminals will be back to full crews.
Harrison "crashed the plane at CP" and left a mess as a result of unhappy customers, many of whom have left where possible. I agree with your statements. CEO's need to be visionary and look at the big picxture. Cutting out marginal business can come back and bite you when the economy turns south and you could use the business to help keep the lights on.
Shadow the Cats owner My husband remembers about 20 years ago a CEO being run out for spending to much in double track improvements. IIRC he said his name was Robert Krebs or something like that and was the head of the BNSF at the time. The BOD told him he was spending way to much money double tracking the ATSF transcon all over the system they said the traffic levels did not justify the spending. They kept telling him be more like EHH in fact cut back on capital spending. He refused and was fired. However 2 years after he was released the traffic he had been building for showed up and the BOD had egg on its face as all that so called excess capacity was gone and they needed more of it fast. I guess the Boards of these get it now companies need to realize is play the long game not what the Street wants. These days it is I want results now not in 5 years. So people that can see thru the fog and see what is needed in the future are cast aside for people that promise to get you ahead right now regardless if they crash the plane.
My husband remembers about 20 years ago a CEO being run out for spending to much in double track improvements. IIRC he said his name was Robert Krebs or something like that and was the head of the BNSF at the time. The BOD told him he was spending way to much money double tracking the ATSF transcon all over the system they said the traffic levels did not justify the spending. They kept telling him be more like EHH in fact cut back on capital spending. He refused and was fired. However 2 years after he was released the traffic he had been building for showed up and the BOD had egg on its face as all that so called excess capacity was gone and they needed more of it fast. I guess the Boards of these get it now companies need to realize is play the long game not what the Street wants. These days it is I want results now not in 5 years. So people that can see thru the fog and see what is needed in the future are cast aside for people that promise to get you ahead right now regardless if they crash the plane.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.