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How many RR lines under lakes?

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How many RR lines under lakes?
Posted by Boyd on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:34 PM

How many railroad lines are now under water after a river was dammed for hydroelectric power and/or water supply for a city? I know in some instances the tracks weren't even removed before the lake started filling. My dad used to live near a dam by the town of Heyfield Victoria. Australia. There was a severe drought a few decades ago so my dad, wife and friends drove down into the town that was there before the dam was built. The tracks were still there. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:42 PM

There were two sidings that are now under the Stillwater Reservoir in the Adirondacks - when they drop the lake level in the fall, you can see them.

The reservoir was there when the railroad (and the sidings) were built, but a major project raised the level of the lake, requiring the railroad to be raised and flooding the sidings.  The rails are gone from the sidings, but the ties are still there.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, February 27, 2017 7:52 PM

Considering the propensities of railroads to build 'water level' routes following streams, and of dams to also be located on streams, the confluence ( Mischief ) of those locations might be pretty frequent.  

It's probably more common out West, where the railroad was built before the dam (which dam likely resulted from the civilization the railroad brought in).  Here in the eastern US, many dams were in place from the colonial era and early 1800s before railroads started to be built, so there were not as many conflicts. 

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Posted by challenger3980 on Monday, February 27, 2017 10:58 PM

IIRC, the SP not only lost tracks, but a roundhouse when the Shasta Dam was built.

I don't know if the tracks were pulled up, or left behind, but the WP tracks were "Relocated" when the recently in the news, Oroville dam was built.

I am also pretty sure there were some rail lines relocated in the Columbia River Gorge, when some of the dams along the Columbia River were built.

Yes, it was pretty common here out West to have tracks in "Less than Ideal Places" when dams were built. Not just tracks, but even whole towns and villages.

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:04 AM

I can't give an exact figure, but there are quite a few abandoned branches underwater, particularly in the west. The only one off the top of my head in the east is a Pennsy line under the Kinzua Dam.

Much of the Yosemite Valley Railroad grade is under a reservoir.

In my fictional railroad building, I find that a lot of useful valleys and canyons have been dammed, which can make it more of a challenge.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:58 AM

There's at least 1 lake in the upper Missouri River basin - South Dakota ? - which covered a former MILW branch line.  It's notable because the dam agency (Army Corps ? Bureau of Reclamation/ Land Management ?) built a nice relocation, which included a long multi-span deck girder bridge.  Within a few years, the branch - including the relocation - was abandoned.  The bridge spans sat unused for a couple decades.  Then about 8 years ago, some of them were salvaged, cleaned up & modified, and reinstalled as part of the UP's replacement Kate Shelley Bridge in Iowa.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:57 AM

I believe that the Flathead Tunnel on the former GN main was bored as part of a line relocation in the 1960's caused by dam construction.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:05 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I believe that the Flathead Tunnel on the former GN main was bored as part of a line relocation in the 1960's caused by dam construction.

 

Yes, it was bored because of the Flathead Dam.

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Posted by dmoore74 on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:58 AM

The Athol Branch of the Boston & Albany was removed on the mid 30's when the Quabbin Reservoir was built to supply water for Boston.  Traces of the roadbed cam be found at the north and south ends of the reservoir but the remainder is under 100+ feet of water.  

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Posted by hontell on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 9:25 AM
When they built the Charlottesburg Reservoir on the West Milford/Jefferson border in North Jersey they covered the Wharton and Northern (CNJ) line to the interchange with the NYSW. A new W&N line was built but has long since been abandoned.
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Posted by pajrr on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:01 AM

The Ulster & Delaware in NY State had to relocate when the Ashokan Reservoir was built.

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Posted by DS4-4-1000 on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:09 AM

The Hoosac Tunnel and Wilmington had to relocate due to a dam.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:44 AM

The D&RGW line was relocated around 1961 from the bottom of the San Juan valley do to dam construction.  This was probabliy the very last three-foot-gauge track construction for a common-carrier railroad in the USA.  Still steam operated then, also  And then abandoned juist a few years later?  I think this was around Pagosa Springs Junction and/or Gato.

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Posted by Victrola1 on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:56 AM

How many railroad lines operate under a lake? 

From where in Michigan to where in Wisconsin under Lake Michigan to bypass Chicago would you build one? 

 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 11:13 AM

Paul_D_North_Jr

There's at least 1 lake in the upper Missouri River basin - South Dakota ? - which covered a former MILW branch line.  It's notable because the dam agency (Army Corps ? Bureau of Reclamation/ Land Management ?) built a nice relocation, which included a long multi-span deck girder bridge.  Within a few years, the branch - including the relocation - was abandoned.  The bridge spans sat unused for a couple decades.  Then about 8 years ago, some of them were salvaged, cleaned up & modified, and reinstalled as part of the UP's replacement Kate Shelley Bridge in Iowa.

- PDN.  

 

You might be describing the bridge at Mobridge, SD.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:18 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
Paul_D_North_Jr

There's at least 1 lake in the upper Missouri River basin - South Dakota ? - which covered a former MILW branch line.  It's notable because the dam agency (Army Corps ? Bureau of Reclamation/ Land Management ?) built a nice relocation, which included a long multi-span deck girder bridge.  Within a few years, the branch - including the relocation - was abandoned.  The bridge spans sat unused for a couple decades.  Then about 8 years ago, some of them were salvaged, cleaned up & modified, and reinstalled as part of the UP's replacement Kate Shelley Bridge in Iowa.

- PDN.  

 

 

 

You might be describing the bridge at Mobridge, SD.

 

 

He's describing the MILW's Chicago-Council Bluffs main line crossing of the Des Moines River in Central Iowa.  The replacement bridge was built because the Saylorville Reservoir project was going to at times flood land the bridge sat on.  That bridge's steel towers weren't designed to be submerged so the Corps of Engineers built a new bridge that could withstand being submerged.  It was used by the MILW for about 8 years, but lasted as a CNW and finally UP branchline before it was abandoned.

After the UP reclaimed the spans, the State of Iowa built new spans for a bicycle trail.  I've walked the bridge many times, biked part of the trail east of there.  I also made one trip over it when it was a railroad bridge and work over the recycled parts used in the KSB2

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Trestle_Trail

Jeff

 

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:19 PM

What we call a lake out west is more like a pond to you folks back east. Some of our rivers* would not even qualify as a creek.  That being said, if you rode Amtrak thru Colorado  (#3,#4,#5,#6) you've been shoo-flied/ line changed around one of those lakes.

#3/#4 = John Martin Dam (ATSF -1954) between Lamar & Las Animas (Hilton/Caddoa/Prowers)

#5/#6 = Barr Lake (CB&Q 1918) between Irondale/Barr/Tonville (now Brighton, CO...NE Denver Burbs)

Others that I can think of in my area: Norton Dam (KS/CRIP & CB&Q...now Kyle RR), Trinidad Dam (CO- Jansen C&W); Navajo Dam (Arboles-Durango CO DRGW-NG 1964); Thistle UT (DRGW transcon-1983); Kanopolis Dam (KS-MoP), Harlan/Alma Dam (NE/CB&Q), Swanson/Trenton Dam (NE/ CBQ); Lake McConaughy (NE/UP)

There is also the one that did not happen: Site of the "Gore Canyon War" (When UP got underhanded & dirty and was defeated by Moffat's DNWP with an assist from Teddy Roosevelt circa 1905)

(*) Most of the year the Arkansas River bottoms are mowed county park grasslands around Dodge City and Garden City, KS

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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:26 PM

Realignment via Flathead Tunnel was due to Libby Dam, not "Flathead Dam."

In addition to dam-related realignments which left some segments of old grade submerged on both sides of the Columbia, there are examples of same on the Snake.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:31 PM

Quoting MC: "What we call a lake out west is more like a pond to you folks back east. Some of our rivers* would not even qualify as a creek.  " Quite true. The Jordan River here is a little stream when compared with the rivers around where I grew up. Nine years ago, my wife and I drove across the Rappahannock River (in Virginia) close to Chesapeake Bay, and she marveled about its width. The first time I crossed it, in1941, I crossed it on a ferry--from the spot where my father first saw my mother. It is true that the river is not quite so wide at Fredericksburg, but it still was quite an obstacle to Ambrose Burnside and his boys. And, in 1814, redcoats landed at Tappahannock, whiich is well up the river from the Bay, and one of my great-great-grandfathers died there.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:37 PM

Second post 1st vanished

When the TVA built Fontana dam during WW-2 the work involved moving part of SOU RR's Murphy branch just west of Bryson City, NC.  As well a SOU branch to town of Fontana ( originally C&TS ) was along the river and used to bring in the building materials.  Work was rushed to provide electric power to Alcoa aluminum smelters.  Rumor is the lake filled quickly and SOU abandoned tracks closest to Fontana as they flooded as SOU was still bringing in various materials.   

The Abandoned C&TS may have been an attempt to reach Tennessee by way of conecting to a SOU  ( T&CS) line to Alcoa.  The 2 lines got to within 12 miles of each other but never connected.  T&CS abandoned some time and connecting the 2 would have made a very expensive proposition.  SOU instead used the French broad river from Asheville that was all down hill to Knoxville instead of a mountain grade and curve RR. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:46 PM

Yes, no mountain curves; just curves along the French Broad. It was a beautiful ride either way. Going from Asheville to Knoxville, I stood in the vestibule of the sleeper with the upper door open.

Johnny

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Posted by erikem on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:59 PM

Yet another ROW flooded by a dam was the orginal AT&SF line to San Diego between Perris and Lake Elsinore (Railraod Canyon Reservoir).

The proposed San Diego, Cuyamaca and Eastern would have been routed through what is now the San Vincente reservoir. The line only made it to Fostoria, which is just downstream of the dam. Dam was built decades after the SDC&E.

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Posted by tpatrick on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 2:44 PM

The Pennsylvania Railroad branch from Warren PA to Salamanca NY was flooded in 1965 when the Kinzua (pron. kin-ZOO) Dam was completed on the Allegheny River. The remainder of the railroad line, Salamanca to Bradford PA via Olean NY, was abandoned. The Allegheny Reservoir backs up almost to Salamanca and is one of the deepest lakes in Pennsylvania. Erie RR's Kinzua Viaduct was a nearby neighbor associated with neither dam nor river.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 7:42 PM

daveklepper

The D&RGW line was relocated around 1961 from the bottom of the San Juan valley do to dam construction.  This was probabliy the very last three-foot-gauge track construction for a common-carrier railroad in the USA.  Still steam operated then, also  And then abandoned juist a few years later?  I think this was around Pagosa Springs Junction and/or Gato.

Rode the old line 1960 and 1961, the new line 1962.   Maurey Kleibolt trips.

 

Yes, it was the Navaho Resevoir, downstream from Gato, toward Arboles.

Some other Colorado narrow gauge grades under water: D&RGW under a couple of inpoundments between Gunnison and Cimarron; C&S under reservoirs along the South Platte River; both C&S and D&RGW under Lake Dillon.  

A standard gauge line that was also covered over by South Platte reservoirs was the Colorado Midland in the South Park area.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 8:43 PM

Jeff - Thanks for adding those facts and details about that MILW bridge.  Bow 

And now for something different: Then there was the 'involuntary' relocation of the D&RGW (and the Utah Rwy.'s trackage rights over it) due to a quickly-formed 'natural' earth dam and lake at Thistle, Utah, caused by a large landslide in April 1983:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thistle,_Utah#Railroads 

http://www.drgw.net/info/ThistleMudslide 

http://utahrails.net/drgw/thistle-vanished.php 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:09 PM

I think I remember hearing that the Pepacton Reservoir in New York flooded a railroad (Ulster & Delaware again?) when it filled up.

It also submerged the town of Shavertown, ancestral home of my family.

Carl

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Posted by DSchmitt on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:32 PM

Western Pacific line change 

http://www.wplives.com/frc/oroville_line_change.html

Oroville Dam is the tallest dam in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam

 

 

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Posted by challenger3980 on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:39 PM

DSchmitt

Western Pacific line change 

http://www.wplives.com/frc/oroville_line_change.html

Oroville Dam is the tallest dam in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam

 

 

 

 

That Title was in Question there for awhileSmile, Wink & Grin

I am Glad that it ended well, so far.

Doug

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Posted by DSchmitt on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:47 PM

challenger3980

 

 
DSchmitt

Western Pacific line change 

http://www.wplives.com/frc/oroville_line_change.html

Oroville Dam is the tallest dam in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam

 

 

 

 

 

 

That Title was in Question there for awhileSmile, Wink & Grin

I am Glad that it ended well, so far.

Doug

 

The dam was in no danger of failing, however if the if the spillway had failed the lake level would have very shortly been about 30 feet lower and large area downstream flooded.    Both the main and auxillary spillways are on the hillside next to the dam, not on the dam.

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Posted by Geared Steam on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 11:05 PM

Deggesty

 

 
CSSHEGEWISCH

I believe that the Flathead Tunnel on the former GN main was bored as part of a line relocation in the 1960's caused by dam construction.

 

 

 

Yes, it was bored because of the Flathead Dam.

 

 

Correction, the Flathead Tunnel was bored to relocate the then GN line up the Fisher river for the Libby Dam, a Flathead dam doesn't exist in those parts. Kerr Dam is on Flathead lake, 120 miles from Libby dam and Lake Koocanusa.

 

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