Trains.com

News Wire: BNSF Railway’s profit tumbles in 2016 as traffic falls

2230 views
17 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:38 PM

They probably all came off the same assembly line anyhow...

Used to be a potato chip company up this way that I'm pretty sure also made chips for some other outfits.  The printing was different on the boxes, but the chips were the same...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:24 PM

Cotton Belt MP104
AnthonyV makes a good point. i.e. Milwaukee sends a replacement bit. If it works as well as the Stanley brand, reputation is restored. This is dependent on one mostly overlooked fact. Did a complaint get registered w/Milwaukee? As a customer service rep. for a company, we just needed a chance to correct any defect and were happy to do so. What if QC at Milwaukee had a lapse? BaltACD will tell everyone to buy Stanley, when in fact Stanley could suffer a mishap in its production also. “Bits” aside, if the size of load versus timely nature of service is the factor……the choice is a no brainer. Consider shipping coal from Wyoming to Alabama via OTR. No way. But the if cargo is perishable and quantity NOT of Unit Train size, well, that too is a no brainer endmrw0302171348

The relative 'nickle & dime' nature of what I spent on the Milwaukee bits didn't warrant me wasting any more of my time to go through the 'Customer Service' routine.  All I wanted was my intended job completed and the Stanley bits completed it.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 310 posts
Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Thursday, March 2, 2017 1:50 PM
AnthonyV makes a good point. i.e. Milwaukee sends a replacement bit. If it works as well as the Stanley brand, reputation is restored. This is dependent on one mostly overlooked fact. Did a complaint get registered w/Milwaukee? As a customer service rep. for a company, we just needed a chance to correct any defect and were happy to do so. What if QC at Milwaukee had a lapse? BaltACD will tell everyone to buy Stanley, when in fact Stanley could suffer a mishap in its production also. “Bits” aside, if the size of load versus timely nature of service is the factor……the choice is a no brainer. Consider shipping coal from Wyoming to Alabama via OTR. No way. But the if cargo is perishable and quantity NOT of Unit Train size, well, that too is a no brainer endmrw0302171348
The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 7:12 PM

AnthonyV
That's exactly my point.  You found that the Stanley bits cut better than the Milwaukee bits.  Do you think Milwaukee's marketing department can convince you to buy their bits next time?  Probably not, unless they are new and improved, Milwaukee gives you a free set to try out, and they work as promised.

Ultimately the product or service must be as good or better than the competition, especially when customer has a bottom line to worry about.

In the short run Milwaukee got my business based on their reputation - they lost it based on their performance.  To a marketer, it is getting that 1st sale.  If the 1st sale doesn't deliver, they are toast.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • 217 posts
Posted by AnthonyV on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:30 PM

BaltACD

 

 
AnthonyV
BaltACD
AnthonyV
BaltACD
AnthonyV

And that is where marketing and promotion come in - touting the advantages of Yellow Chop Saws over the competiton so that the buying public views a Yellow Chop Saw as the saw to have when you have to have a chop saw.

I see you point based on the way I wrote the chop saw example.

What I wanted to say is I'm a carpenter and I have a yellow chop saw while other carpenters have green ones.  Why would any potential customers care?

And if the marketers and promoters of the Yellow Chop Saw do their job 'properly' they will make you BELIEVE that the Yellow Chop Saw is the superior product and it will make you a better carpenter than any other chop saw available will do.

Marketing and promotion exist to make one believe that you just can't exist with buying the product that is being marketed and promoted.  Look at Billy Mays ability to hawk merchandise that was basically of a 'who cares' variety.

Not saying the Buffet is Billy Mays, but he is selling the idea of BNSF.

I doubt I could land a single customer by virtue of my saw being yellow.  My customers ultimately care about quality, timetable, and cost.  They certainly don't care that my saw is yellow.

Similary, I don't think there is a single shipper that cares about fuel economy or highway congestion unless it affects cost, delivery times, and reliability.

I am certainly not a shipper, but I have never thought of fuel economy or highway congestion when placing an on-line order.  I just want to know what it costs and that it will be delivered by next Thursday.

 

So from your viewpoint - rail transportation can't be sold to shippers.  Just as it is your belief that a better chop saw blade can't be made and sold. 

Shippers have product to ship, they want to do it at minimum expense, predictable delivery schedule and if they can 'in a green manner'.  Marketing railroad fuel economy triggers the 'green' button.  Little things count and you market every possible advantage you believe your product possesses.

As an aside - a little while ago I had to drill out some hardened flat head machine screws from a brake disk on my race car.  Went to Home Depot and bough several 'Milwaukee Cobalt' drill bits of the proper size - they were crap.  Went down the road a bit to a Mom & Pop hardware store and bought some 'Stanley Cobalt' drill bits - cut just like I wanted them too.  I have no idea why the Milwaukee product didn't work, I just know that my trust in the Milwaukee name has been damaged.

 

That's exactly my point.  You found that the Stanley bits cut better than the Milwaukee bits.  Do you think Milwaukee's marketing department can convince you to buy their bits next time?  Probably not, unless they are new and improved, Milwaukee gives you a free set to try out, and they work as promised.

Ultimately the product or service must be as good or better than the competition, especially when customer has a bottom line to worry about.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:09 PM

AnthonyV
BaltACD
AnthonyV
BaltACD
AnthonyV

And that is where marketing and promotion come in - touting the advantages of Yellow Chop Saws over the competiton so that the buying public views a Yellow Chop Saw as the saw to have when you have to have a chop saw.

I see you point based on the way I wrote the chop saw example.

What I wanted to say is I'm a carpenter and I have a yellow chop saw while other carpenters have green ones.  Why would any potential customers care?

And if the marketers and promoters of the Yellow Chop Saw do their job 'properly' they will make you BELIEVE that the Yellow Chop Saw is the superior product and it will make you a better carpenter than any other chop saw available will do.

Marketing and promotion exist to make one believe that you just can't exist with buying the product that is being marketed and promoted.  Look at Billy Mays ability to hawk merchandise that was basically of a 'who cares' variety.

Not saying the Buffet is Billy Mays, but he is selling the idea of BNSF.

I doubt I could land a single customer by virtue of my saw being yellow.  My customers ultimately care about quality, timetable, and cost.  They certainly don't care that my saw is yellow.

Similary, I don't think there is a single shipper that cares about fuel economy or highway congestion unless it affects cost, delivery times, and reliability.

I am certainly not a shipper, but I have never thought of fuel economy or highway congestion when placing an on-line order.  I just want to know what it costs and that it will be delivered by next Thursday.

So from your viewpoint - rail transportation can't be sold to shippers.  Just as it is your belief that a better chop saw blade can't be made and sold. 

Shippers have product to ship, they want to do it at minimum expense, predictable delivery schedule and if they can 'in a green manner'.  Marketing railroad fuel economy triggers the 'green' button.  Little things count and you market every possible advantage you believe your product possesses.

As an aside - a little while ago I had to drill out some hardened flat head machine screws from a brake disk on my race car.  Went to Home Depot and bough several 'Milwaukee Cobalt' drill bits of the proper size - they were crap.  Went down the road a bit to a Mom & Pop hardware store and bought some 'Stanley Cobalt' drill bits - cut just like I wanted them too.  I have no idea why the Milwaukee product didn't work, I just know that my trust in the Milwaukee name has been damaged.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • 217 posts
Posted by AnthonyV on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:30 PM

BaltACD

 

 
AnthonyV
BaltACD
AnthonyV

And that is where marketing and promotion come in - touting the advantages of Yellow Chop Saws over the competiton so that the buying public views a Yellow Chop Saw as the saw to have when you have to have a chop saw.

I see you point based on the way I wrote the chop saw example.

What I wanted to say is I'm a carpenter and I have a yellow chop saw while other carpenters have green ones.  Why would any potential customers care?

 

And if the marketers and promoters of the Yellow Chop Saw do their job 'properly' they will make you BELIEVE that the Yellow Chop Saw is the superior product and it will make you a better carpenter than any other chop saw available will do.

Marketing and promotion exist to make one believe that you just can't exist with buying the product that is being marketed and promoted.  Look at Billy Mays ability to hawk merchandise that was basically of a 'who cares' variety.

Not saying the Buffet is Billy Mays, but he is selling the idea of BNSF.

 

I doubt I could land a single customer by virtue of my saw being yellow.  My customers ultimately care about quality, timetable, and cost.  They certainly don't care that my saw is yellow.

Similary, I don't think there is a single shipper that cares about fuel economy or highway congestion unless it affects cost, delivery times, and reliability.

I am certainly not a shipper, but I have never thought of fuel economy or highway congestion when placing an on-line order.  I just want to know what it costs and that it will be delivered by next Thursday.

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:00 PM

My boss does both.  We use the BNSF for hauling our bulk resins in so we can custom mix them for our customers.  We then sell them and our service hauling them at the rate of 150 tons per mile per gallon of fuel burned all over the Eastern 2/3rd's of the USA.  We provide a service level that the railroads can not or will not provide for their customers.  How do I know they refuse to provide service for loose car customers I am one of the forgotten aka the loose car customer.  While I can give a customer an eta within an hour of when his truck will be there and be pretty well spot on.  If I am able to get ahold of anyone at the BNSF in customer service the best they can give me is a 2 day window on when I might get my cars delivered.  Think about that 48 hours on when I might see it and then it can be up to 2 days before or after that even.  We order cars on a weekly basis and we still have no clue when they are going to be delivered.  Yet I can give a customer 1200 miles away an estimate within 60 mins of when he can expect that driver. 

 

That is why the OTR industry as a whole spanks the railroads and has been we provide service that even we do charge more per mile the customers on the other end of the supply chain can count on the trucks to be there short of an Act of God that prevents it. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:47 PM

AnthonyV
BaltACD
AnthonyV

And that is where marketing and promotion come in - touting the advantages of Yellow Chop Saws over the competiton so that the buying public views a Yellow Chop Saw as the saw to have when you have to have a chop saw.

I see you point based on the way I wrote the chop saw example.

What I wanted to say is I'm a carpenter and I have a yellow chop saw while other carpenters have green ones.  Why would any potential customers care?

And if the marketers and promoters of the Yellow Chop Saw do their job 'properly' they will make you BELIEVE that the Yellow Chop Saw is the superior product and it will make you a better carpenter than any other chop saw available will do.

Marketing and promotion exist to make one believe that you just can't exist with buying the product that is being marketed and promoted.  Look at Billy Mays ability to hawk merchandise that was basically of a 'who cares' variety.

Not saying the Buffet is Billy Mays, but he is selling the idea of BNSF.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • 217 posts
Posted by AnthonyV on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:25 PM

BaltACD

 

 
AnthonyV
Let's say I issued a press release that stated "My chop saw is yellow while other companies have green ones."  I think most people would say "So what?"

 

And that is where marketing and promotion come in - touting the advantages of Yellow Chop Saws over the competiton so that the buying public views a Yellow Chop Saw as the saw to have when you have to have a chop saw.

 

I see you point based on the way I wrote the chop saw example.

What I wanted to say is I'm a carpenter and I have a yellow chop saw while other carpenters have green ones.  Why would any potential customers care?

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 10:01 AM

Perhaps his pitch was towards investors and not towards potential customers. I understand what you're saying. It's like a sales pitch where you're presented with features but the benefits explanation. It reminds me of a time I was buying a new pickup. The salesman boasted that the truck had a self-adjusting, hydraulic clutch. I asked what that was and why I would want it. He said "I really don't know. It's just one of those things they told us to emphasize."

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 9:52 AM

AnthonyV
Let's say I issued a press release that stated "My chop saw is yellow while other companies have green ones."  I think most people would say "So what?"

And that is where marketing and promotion come in - touting the advantages of Yellow Chop Saws over the competiton so that the buying public views a Yellow Chop Saw as the saw to have when you have to have a chop saw.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • 217 posts
Posted by AnthonyV on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 9:03 AM

Murphy Siding

 

 
AnthonyV

 

 
Murphy Siding

     So it means the train is 4 times as efficenet in fuel usage. I must not understand the question.

 

 

 

All by itself, is this fact going to cause a shift from truck to rail?  What about service?

 

 

 

Did Buffet say it would?

 

 

No, but he should have.

It's marketing 101. Customers want to learn about the benefits that your company or product offers, not its features.

As stated in the article (I grant you that Buffet may have said more than what is in the article.), Buffet obviously believes this fact is important for us to know (as does CSX in their TV commercials).  Why?  How does it benefit the customer?  If I was a shipper I would want to know the benefits this fact has to offer.  All by itself this fact is meaningless.

Let's say I issued a press release that stated "My chop saw is yellow while other companies have green ones."  I think most people would say "So what?"

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, February 27, 2017 7:15 PM

AnthonyV

 

 
Murphy Siding

     So it means the train is 4 times as efficenet in fuel usage. I must not understand the question.

 

 

 

All by itself, is this fact going to cause a shift from truck to rail?  What about service?

 

Did Buffet say it would?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • 217 posts
Posted by AnthonyV on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:15 PM

Murphy Siding

     So it means the train is 4 times as efficenet in fuel usage. I must not understand the question.

 

All by itself, is this fact going to cause a shift from truck to rail?  What about service?

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:03 PM

     So it means the train is 4 times as efficenet in fuel usage. I must not understand the question.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • 217 posts
Posted by AnthonyV on Monday, February 27, 2017 5:01 PM

Buffet is quoted in the article as writing

“BNSF, like other Class I railroads, uses only a single gallon of diesel fuel to move a ton of freight almost 500 miles,” Buffett wrote. “Those economics make railroads four times as fuel-efficient as trucks!"

So railroads move a ton of freight 500 miles per gallon and trucks move a ton 125 miles per gallon. 

So what?

Moderator
  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Wisconsin
  • 1,532 posts
Posted by Brian Schmidt on Monday, February 27, 2017 3:30 PM

Declines in coal and crude oil shipments dented revenue

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/02/27-bnsf-earnings

Tags: BNSF

Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy