It's times like these where the beancounting operating bubbas went into hiding after refusing to repair several hundred air dumps and instead went and scrapped them. They aren't cheap to replace and require severe lead times.
Is there a futures market for large rip-rap?
FYI.Oroville Dam.Building the Dam.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_5udzKfLQM Trains and Rotary Hoppers were used to move fill to Rotary Dumpers.Two trains collided at mouth of tunnel, as here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ8Um5KJfF0 Thank You.
"There were some photos and at least 1 article in Trains in the circa 1965 time frame about the contractor using U25Cs and side dump cars"
While you might expect them to have used side dump cars, someone realised that all the cars would be unloaded in the one place and it would be cheaper to buy a car dumper and 150 big (if short) gondolas each carrying 57.5 cubic metres. I know this because a former employer of mine, BHP Iron Ore, wanting to set up the biggest single iron ore mine in Australia (or maybe the world) in 1968 found a dealer with a car dumper and 150 gondolas for sale at a knock down price. The dumper lasted until a year or so ago when it was replaced, although three others were needed when the number of ore cars passed five figures (as had the number of mines).
At least twenty of the Oroville cars were converted to ballast cars for the construction of the line from Port Hedland to Newman and are still in use. The others have gone away after forty years of hard use, replaced by new Chinese built cars with stainless steel bodies.
Peter
CMStPnP Well I think it is clear that California needs to spend some money on it's water control systems. Understood they can't handle all floods but on the other hand they should be able to handle most droughts and most deluges.
Well I think it is clear that California needs to spend some money on it's water control systems. Understood they can't handle all floods but on the other hand they should be able to handle most droughts and most deluges.
The operative word in your statement is, "MOST." What we have is a five hundred year event, way beyond normal for the area, combined with some problems with the infrastructure that only came to light under extreme overload. Once things return to an approximation of normal remedial action will be taken. It may be several centuries before those remedies get a similar test.
Chuck (ex Sacramento Valley resident)
From what I've seen, the dam itself is not in immediate danger. The spillways are routed over existing terrain that's on the order of 1,000 to 2,000 feet away from the dam itself. There is a bit of concern on how fast the terain will erode along with the debris flow going into the Feather River.
One thing to keep in mind, with the dam being full, it no longer provides any sort of flood control. A major cloudburst upstream will not be buffered by the dam.
There were some photos and at least 1 article in Trains in the circa 1965 time frame about the contractor using U25Cs and side dump cars on its short on-site construction railroad to move either excavated or fill material. They're not showing up on the Magazine Index, probably because the article was a column by either Editor David P. Morgan or Professional Iconoclast John G. Kneiling (or both), and photos aren't indexed.
As I recall, there was a head-on collision, which wrecked several of the units and killed some of the contractor's personnel who operated them.
- Paul North.
Edit: Search for "Oro Dam Constructors" and you'll likely find articles and references. Here are links to just 2 of them:
http://djkuba.tripod.com/ODamTrainTunelWreck.html
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,1395327
Killed all 4 railroaders (2 engineers and 2 'oilers' [firemen] ), destroyed 2 locos and badly damaged 2 others.
- PDN.
Euclid Generally, it sounds like the dam itself is not expected to fail and let the entire reservoir go. But in reading all the news, it is impossible to understand whether or not there is a risk of such a full dam failure. News writing is so sloppy these days that such a fine detail about what exactly is at risk for failure is way too much to ask.
Generally, it sounds like the dam itself is not expected to fail and let the entire reservoir go. But in reading all the news, it is impossible to understand whether or not there is a risk of such a full dam failure. News writing is so sloppy these days that such a fine detail about what exactly is at risk for failure is way too much to ask.
From what I have read on other sources, failure of the main dam isn't the concern, but rather the spillways failing, and eroding the earthen portion of the dam. Once the earthen portion of the dam starts to fail, it can progress very rapidly, while not a sudden loss of the entire structure type wall of water, it can still release enough water to cause massive flooding, damage and loss of life in the affected areas.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
This may be more chicken little but here is a good explanation of what has happen so far. Main point is that main spillway concrete has failed and water coming over spillway is washing under spillway and may be weakening the earthen dam as well. State tried to pour more concrete yesterday but may have been too late. Not mentioned is that hydraulic cement for concrete is not always available and can be difficult to pump.
Additional problem is even if dam survives this thru Tuesday more rain in area may put more water in lake that could make overflows even higher / Hope that does not happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQxVmKnBgvc
EDIT
The mention that the Hydro electric power plant went off line due to debris and could not release water is another potential problem. If debris cleared but if the high voltage line from the plant is severed by the overflows the plant may not be able to cold start itself to increase water release.. Most Hydro plants can cold start but not all.
Sam: http://www.wplives.com/frc/oroville_line_change.html
Back in the day of those oddball U25C's.....
I'd wait a while on the issue with the dam, or at least to the point where a real journalist apperas on the scene and shuts up the chicken little newsworkers with some real facts.
Yesterday's outlook from UP:
https://www.up.com/customers/announcements/customernews/generalannouncements/CN2017-12.html
All of this weather-related damage, disruption, and detouring reminds me of the spring of 1983, as covered in the July 1983 issue of Trains. One of the feature news pieces was titled "Why the Map Bled," a reference to the wall map that SP engineers used to mark up known washouts and other problem spots with colored pens. The story said, "By the first week of March, there were so many notations, California looked liked it was bleeding." Any map made right now of the issues currently impacting Western railroads would probably look just as bad, if not worse.
Apparently, The failure of the concrete spillway at the dam has been getting worse, and the volume of water that was diverted to an aux. spillway is also putting that in danger of failure, also. Here is a link to the story @ http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/02/12/emergency-evacuations-ordered-oroville-dam-spillway-fails/
Linked story has photos of dam and failing area. The article mentions that the threat is to downstream of the dam: FTA "...The Feather River flows south into the Sacramento River. Flooding could potentially affect the Sacramento River and surrounding areas..."
"Update: A flash flood warning has been issued for significant parts of Butte County. The Butte County Sheriff has issued a warning: “This is NOT a drill.”
Not being familiar with the area and the terraine, BUt I remember reading about it while it was under construction in the 1960's. The Southern Pacific RR was involved ( I think they were hauling in materials to build the dam(?). The article mentions that the water in the dam is 'normally' about 700' above sea level, but due to the rains and infeed to the lake, it is now about 900' above sea level. They seem to indicate that so far the only failure is in the area of the regular spillway and the auxillary spilway.
Major flooding would effect Sacramento area, quite a bit of agricultural activities(?) and I think the Ca. Railroad Museum? It seems like a potentially, very dangerous situation. Maybe some local Posters can advise of the situation.
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