schlimmBut then, what else should we expect from someone who couldn't even manage a sandwich shop successfully?
Well you should always expect more from someone that takes risks than someone that is afraid to take risks and likes to maintain the status quo.
I can tell you from the hike in my Salary after that experience (which is on my resume) which type of person employers prefer.
[quote n012944
Please show us some facts to support that. Please don't say that you have rode the train, so you know, that means nothing. Balt has already explained why that is. So show me how you would do it, while keeping Metra traffic moving. Where would you make the meets, where the overtakes would happen, and how you would keep the owners traffic moving... I'll be waiting for your response, although I doubt I will get one. If I do, I no doubt will get much facts, just subjective garbarge with a few insults, it seems to be your MO.
I normally would not waste my time responding to you. I know you think highly of yourself in whatever your past capacity was. However, I do need to point out that you restated the argument being made to be more compatible with your opinion and then asked me to support an argument I was not making to begin with.
So I have to provide facts to prove your argument that it can be done without modification to METRA traffic management? I'm sorry, where did I state that above? Anywhere? How about you follow what it is I am arguing instead of restating the argument to your liking and producing a totally new strawman argument.
It's only a 85 mile corridor and it is not even congested until the last 25% of the 85 miles. Allegedly with your railroad experience your making an argument you can't see how to better manage a two to three track railroad over a few miles with some infrastruture improvements? Really?
So no I am not going to waste my time on it because in the past any argument contrary to your own opinion is impossible.
[/quote]
And at last the green curtain opens and it reveals a Lump with zero knowledge and no analytical skills. About all he can do is bluff and bluster and project his own nonsense to others.
We all know that n012944 knows a great deal about Chicago area railroading and you know next to nothing.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimmWe all know that n012944 knows a great deal about Chicago area railroading and you know next to nothing.
Well you have added zero to the discussion with your last 6 posts. And n012944, same with his last two posts. Who is contributing and who is not. Not hard for readers to see.
CMStPnPNot hard for readers to see.
CMStPnP n012944 Please show us some facts to support that. Please don't say that you have rode the train, so you know, that means nothing. Balt has already explained why that is. So show me how you would do it, while keeping Metra traffic moving. Where would you make the meets, where the overtakes would happen, and how you would keep the owners traffic moving... I'll be waiting for your response, although I doubt I will get one. If I do, I no doubt will get much facts, just subjective garbarge with a few insults, it seems to be your MO. I normally would not waste my time responding to you. I know you think highly of yourself in whatever your past capacity was. However, I do need to point out that you restated the argument being made to be more compatible with your opinion and then asked me to support an argument I was not making to begin with. So I have to provide facts to prove your argument that it can be done without modification to METRA traffic management? I'm sorry, where did I state that above? Anywhere? How about you follow what it is I am arguing instead of restating the argument to your liking and producing a totally new strawman argument. It's only a 85 mile corridor and it is not even congested until the last 25% of the 85 miles. Allegedly with your railroad experience your making an argument you can't see how to better manage a two to three track railroad over a few miles with some infrastruture improvements? Really? So no I am not going to waste my time on it because in the past any argument contrary to your own opinion is impossible.
n012944 Please show us some facts to support that. Please don't say that you have rode the train, so you know, that means nothing. Balt has already explained why that is. So show me how you would do it, while keeping Metra traffic moving. Where would you make the meets, where the overtakes would happen, and how you would keep the owners traffic moving... I'll be waiting for your response, although I doubt I will get one. If I do, I no doubt will get much facts, just subjective garbarge with a few insults, it seems to be your MO.
So you have no clue. Gotcha. That is what I figured.
An "expensive model collector"
CMStPnP schlimm We all know that n012944 knows a great deal about Chicago area railroading and you know next to nothing. Well you have added zero to the discussion with your last 6 posts. And n012944, same with his last two posts. Who is contributing and who is not. Not hard for readers to see.
schlimm We all know that n012944 knows a great deal about Chicago area railroading and you know next to nothing.
Making stuff up is not contributing. Putting out wild ideas without a plan is not contributing. Getting upset when getting called out for not having a plan or incorrect information is not contributing.
It speaks volumes that Euclid agrees with your statement.
BaltACD I imagine in the MILW 'slow to 90' days - there was a lot of superelevation built into all the curves. When Class 1's got out of their own passenger business, superelevation was reduced to what served freight speed better and all the curve speeds got adjusted accordingly. 60 years ago and today are two much different railroad worlds.
I imagine in the MILW 'slow to 90' days - there was a lot of superelevation built into all the curves. When Class 1's got out of their own passenger business, superelevation was reduced to what served freight speed better and all the curve speeds got adjusted accordingly. 60 years ago and today are two much different railroad worlds.
Yep.
Here is an interesting Trains article about the upgrades the MILW did to their Chi-Milw main for high speed passenger service. Included in the article is a speed tape from a typical Hiawatha run. It indicates a lot of 100 mph running
https://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/Chicago,%20Milwaukee%20&%20St.%20Paul/1944%20February%20Trains%20Tomorrow%27s%20Railroad%20Today%20How%20the%20Milwaukee%20Has%20Eliminated%20All%20Intermediate%20Slowdowns%20on%20an%20Important%20High%20Speed%20Line.pdf
n012944It speaks volumes that Euclid agrees with your statement.
I agreed with his comment that it is not hard for the readers to see. What I mean is that it is not hard for readers to see who is right and who is wrong. It is a dead giveaway that people who constantly resort to personal attacks and girlish “gotcha” are the ones who are incapable of debating on the merits of their argument because their argument is bogus.
Euclid n012944 It speaks volumes that Euclid agrees with your statement. I agreed with his comment that it is not hard for the readers to see. What I mean is that it is not hard for readers to see who is right and who is wrong. It is a dead giveaway that people who constantly resort to personal attacks and girlish “gotcha” are the ones who are incapable of debating on the merits of their argument because their argument is bogus.
n012944 It speaks volumes that Euclid agrees with your statement.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Euclidgirlish “gotcha”
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Mookie Euclid girlish “gotcha” How about calling it boyish gotcha....
Euclid girlish “gotcha”
How about calling it boyish gotcha....
I have given some thought to that. Gotcha may be gender-neutral, but I tend to think it leans one way. Gotcha is actually the central theme of current society, and it is closely related to sarcasm. Both spring forth from their natural home, which is television culture. One thing for sure is you never hear a manly Gotcha.
There was a movie by that name...
It was a paintball enthusiast who somehow got involved in international intrigue...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Euclid Mookie Euclid girlish “gotcha” How about calling it boyish gotcha.... I have given some thought to that. Gotcha may be gender-neutral, but I tend to think it leans one way. Gotcha is actually the central theme of current society, and it is closely related to sarcasm. Both spring forth from their natural home, which is television culture. One thing for sure is you never hear a manly Gotcha.
Murphy SidingYou must not get out much.
I get out a lot, maybe a little too much. But with things like the Gotcha, you have to stand back a ways to see it. Most people are immersed in it, so they have no idea.
n012944Yep. Here is an interesting Trains article about the upgrades the MILW did to their Chi-Milw main for high speed passenger service. Included in the article is a speed tape from a typical Hiawatha run. It indicates a lot of 100 mph running https://milwaukeeroadarchives.com/Chicago,%20Milwaukee%20&%20St.%20Paul/1944%20February%20Trains
Despite the fact 1944 is not 1955 (have my doubts 1944 standards were maintained through 1955), Federal rules concerning operations change over time..... you can read between the Kalmbach hype and see.............Semaphore Signals, CTC extremely limited, Trains having to slow and cross over and run against the directional flow of traffic. Regardless the timetable of 2 nonstop trains making it in 75 min same in 1955. More importantly look at the average speed back then in what is now METRA territory (thanks for helping me make my point there). Look what a better job they did back then running METRA territory on their own with more antiquated signals and less refined operating rules.
97 miles of upgraded ballast on a double track 85 mile railroad amounts to what per main? If memory serves me correctly, back then it was actually a three track main in parts of Illinois, North of CUS. Speed limit was not consistent and you can read via the article it wasn't either. All of which I stated earlier.
Now, how fast do you think the trip will be made to METRA territory running at 90 mph South of Milwaukee non-stop? What do you think the average speed will be non-stop? How visible do you think the METRA train handling issue will be once WisDOT attempts those experiments and watches the average train speed drop by 50% or more in places in METRA territory (with no scheduled stops). At that point WisDOT will have a WTF moment and METRA will have some explaining to do............at any rate once those experiments happen.......and they are planned. It will be interesting to be a bug on the wall in that first METRA vs WisDOT meeting. I can hear it now......"but we have planned windows you have to fall into".......lol. "We at METRA are experienced railroaders so it doesn't matter what you think about our practices from long ago that we use today".......lol. Best argument of all: "Let me keep my train handling expertise from the mid-1940's and you need to prove to me with meets and diagrams you can do better.....lets see the facts"........Yeah they are going to love those answers <not>.
Oh boy, interesting times will then be upon us in the Illinois / Wisconsin rail subsidy program.
CMStPnP Best argument of all: "Let me keep my train handling expertise from the mid-1940's and you need to prove to me with meets and diagrams you can do better.....lets see the facts"........
Who made that argument? Or are you making stuff up again? If you are talking about me, my expertise is in the now. I may not watch as many YouTube videos as you, but I deal with this 5 days a week.
It seems as though you are the kind of person who takes a few commercial flights, plays Microsoft Flight Simulator a couple of times, and thinks you are the next Sully. You seem to be the kind of person who goes out and buys a fox body Mustang, takes a Richard Petty Driving Experience, and thinks he is Mario Andretti. You think you are an expert because you went on a choo choo ride and watched a YouTube video. I can't argue with that, when someone doesn't care about the facts.
BTW I am still waiting for you to prove your claim. Using todays traffic and todays plant. I think Schlimn was right, I better not hold my breath for anything but insults, facts are foriegn to you. When I see many of the errors that you have posted in this thread alone, makes me not expect anything useful out of you.
n012944BTW I am still waiting for you to prove your claim. Using todays traffic and todays plant. I think Schlimn was right, I better not hold my breath for anything but insults, facts are foriegn to you. When I see many of the errors that you have posted in this thread alone, makes me not expect anything useful out of you.
Judging by some of his postings, it may be that he has a serious problem with reading comprehension. Or else his need to be "right" - all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding - causes the numerous distortions we have all seen.
If someone refuses to see how a train operating at 100mph over most of a route nonstop would have a shorter running time than one which has a 79mph top limit and makes 3 stops, then he is operating in alternate fact universe.
I found Bucky
schlimmIf someone refuses to see how a train operating at 100mph over most of a route nonstop would have a shorter running time than one which has a 79mph top limit and makes 3 stops, then he is operating in alternate fact universe.
On average for most runs 5 stops, two are not on the timetable and are unscheduled. You either get 5 stops Southbound or you get very slow running in METRA territory (45 mph at times). You don't see that from reading a timetable and pontificating.......you actually have to ride the train. It was ironic that even when the best track was METRA track and the track North suffered from deferred maintenence the running was always slower on the better maintained METRA track. Milwaukee road ran the same stretch of track better even in bankruptcy.
Had you googled. You would see CP offering the same timetable at 79 mph vs 90 mph, only change in time is one min maybe two min. Now why do you suppose that is? Even with the station stops a 10 mph improvement over 85 miles should equate to more than 1-2 min time gained......they are not making more stops. Would be curious what the schedule improvement would be if the terminus was the start of METRA territory.
Also what is the one stop Empire Builder carded at? 85 miles in 97 min. one direction.........108 min the other. I think that proves that it has more to do with time of day and traffic than station stops how long it takes a train to transit the corridor and what the schedule is. Amazing that the guy with no railroad experience is the first to point that out.
n012944If you are talking about me, my expertise is in the now.
Is that why your posting an article from 1944 in an attempt to support your arguing position? Regardless of your background your grasping at straws here and I don't think you have the faintest clue about the track route being discussed based on what you posted so far. I know your trying hard to convince me but you haven't.
CMStPnP n012944 If you are talking about me, my expertise is in the now. Is that why your posting an article from 1944 in an attempt to support your arguing position? Regardless of your background your grasping at straws here and I don't think you have the faintest clue about the track route being discussed based on what you posted so far. I know your trying hard to convince me but you haven't.
n012944 If you are talking about me, my expertise is in the now.
The METRA Milwaukee District North Line timetable currently shows 30 trains daily in each direction (60 in total). Add CP freights, a daily Wisconsin & Southern round trip to Clearing, plus Amtrak schedules, and you can see that some pretty sharp dispatching is required for a double track main line. As has been pointed out by others in this thread, perfect dispatching that keeps everything on time is difficult to achieve for a variety of reasons.
Unless Amtrak wants to move its trains to the UP New Line, it is going to have to co-exist with a suburban operation on a congested main line.
CMStPnP Amazing that the guy with no railroad experience is the first to point that out.
Not amazing at all that a guy who is in denial of his reading comprehension deficits refuses to accept that his statements are illogical, tangential and contrafactual.
CSSHEGEWISCHThe METRA Milwaukee District North Line timetable currently shows 30 trains daily in each direction (60 in total). Add CP freights, a daily Wisconsin & Southern round trip to Clearing, plus Amtrak schedules, and you can see that some pretty sharp dispatching is required for a double track main line. As has been pointed out by others in this thread, perfect dispatching that keeps everything on time is difficult to achieve for a variety of reasons. Unless Amtrak wants to move its trains to the UP New Line, it is going to have to co-exist with a suburban operation on a congested main line.
I am not arguing for "perfect dispatching", nor am I arguing that traffic is light in METRA territory. All I am saying is METRA dispatching gives priority to METRA trains and that is a problem when your attempting to establish HSR. METRA could do a better job by prioritizing HSR trains but the fact is it won't and that is the issue. Also the issue in the NEC where Metro North owns the track.
As for moving passenger trains to a freight line. The suggestion has been made to move CP trains to that line but seriously CP trains are not the big issue here. CP trains conflict with the Empire Builder schedule (specifically the former Ford Expeditor to Twin Cities) and thats probably why it is padded. However I think I read 24 CP trains max on the line in good economic times, so compared with the 96 Metra trains I think you'll see again.........METRA is the immediate issue.
Additionally, CP holds it's trains at Rondout at the edge of METRA territory. They either have an agreement with METRA to only run at specific times on METRA territory or else the METRA dispatcher holds them for hours waiting.
BTW, the WisDOT studies on this Corridor are available via Google. All you guys pulling stats out of thin air on train frequency, dispatching, etc. and accusing me of doing so when you haven't used your accusatory fingers to use the tools at hand on the Internet to check your own posts........it's good for comedy but there is a lesson here..... you should make sure your house is not glass before throwing stones.
CMStPnP CSSHEGEWISCH I am not arguing for "perfect dispatching", nor am I arguing that traffic is light in METRA territory. All I am saying is METRA dispatching gives priority to METRA trains and that is a problem when your attempting to establish HSR. METRA could do a better job by prioritizing HSR trains but the fact is it won't and that is the issue. Also the issue in the NEC where Metro North owns the track. As for moving passenger trains to a freight line. The suggestion has been made to move CP trains to that line but seriously CP trains are not the big issue here. CP trains conflict with the Empire Builder schedule (specifically the former Ford Expeditor to Twin Cities) and thats probably why it is padded. However I think I read 24 CP trains max on the line in good economic times, so compared with the 96 Metra trains I think you'll see again.........METRA is the immediate issue. Additionally, CP holds it's trains at Rondout at the edge of METRA territory. They either have an agreement with METRA to only run at specific times on METRA territory or else the METRA dispatcher holds them for hours waiting.
CSSHEGEWISCH
Figures you have presented represent a train every 12 minutes through a 24 hour day with just METRA & CP. In your mind how much time foot print does your HSR train require? Where does that time come from? How is that time 'manufactured' within the existing commitments? Details! Details! Details!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMStPnP schlimm Not amazing at all that a guy who is in denial of his reading comprehension deficits refuses to accept that his statements are illogical, tangential and contrafactual. Ah your just mad and pouting because you lost the argument a long time ago and have run out of counterpoints that make any sense.
schlimm Not amazing at all that a guy who is in denial of his reading comprehension deficits refuses to accept that his statements are illogical, tangential and contrafactual.
Ah your just mad and pouting because you lost the argument a long time ago and have run out of counterpoints that make any sense.
Your entire set of postings is based on your irritation with delays to your busy life. You have a grudge against Metra and Illinois. It is obvious to all but Bucky (a relative, perhaps?) that you are wrong about the entire matter and refuse to examine facts.
You see these threads as arguments with counterpoints, but most of the rest of us see them as posting of facts. You have some over-compensatory need to "win" when there is no contest.
BaltACDFigures you have presented represent a train every 12 minutes through a 24 hour day with just METRA & CP. In your mind how much time foot print does your HSR train require? Where does that time come from? How is that time 'manufactured' within the existing commitments? Details! Details! Details!
Where did you get that figure from?, it's three tracks to the West Line. So you calculated one track and threw in the 10 Amtrak trains, maxed out the CP trains at 24, then presumed Metra runs 24 by 7? Thats your analysis on time available? Good Lord, man......you can do better than that.
schlimmYou see these threads as arguments with counterpoints, but most of the rest of us see them as posting of facts. You have some over-compensatory need to "win" when there is no contest.
So far a lot of arm chair analysis from the opposing side but very sloppy at best.......not a lot of facts. Classic railfan discussion though I will admit. "I'm smart, your not.........here is my crap counter-arguement, with little thinking behind it"
I am enjoying parts of it. Like the 30 METRA trains on the North Line....not even considering the METRA trains that transit the North line to get to the NW line. Remember my caution about using just timetables.........Classic railfan tool though and you can't wean everyone away from them.
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