Hi, I am planning to come to the US again and go to the Grand Canyon. Looking on Google Earth there appears to be a couple of loops to the East of Williams, AZ, and evidence of an old 'Y', indicating it might be a steep hill. It is accessable on Welch Road. Does anyone know the train frequencies in the area please? Is it on the route through Kingman? Would it be worth spending an hour or two at the loop to see trains? Thanks in advance...
There are three lines and two railroads at Williams. The depot in town is former ATSF, now used by the Grand Canyon Railway. The ATSF line past the depot is the former main line, now part of the branch to Phoenix. The branch joins the main at Williams Junction which is 2-5 miles to the geographic east of the depot.
From the depot, the Grand Canyon Railway departs heading more or less east and soon turns to more or less north and on to the south rim of the Grand Canyon. They run one or two passenger trains per day to the canyon, leaving in the morning and returning in the afternoon. See their website. The train is part of Zantera's operations in the area which include the El Trovar at the South Rim and a larger hotel in Williams adjacent to the depot.
A mile or so out of the depot the Grand Canyon Ry. passes under the two main tracks of the former ATSF now BNSF "Transcon" which extends between Chicago and Los Angeles. The main line overpass is part of the circa 1960 line change that begins/ends at Williams Jct. The Transcon is famously busy so you should see some trains on it in any two hour period you might choose.
Mac McCulloch
The Welch Road exit on I-40 is west of Williams. The loops are likely the compensated grade coming out of Ash Fork on the line between Phoenix and Williams Jct. You will need a high ground clearance vehicle for that area.
Brett Wirick's website should have a lot of information to plan with. I haven't lived in Arizona since 1988. See
http://www.trainweb.org/brettrw/maps/seligmansub/seligmansub.html
phishplatephan (1-2):
As SSW9389 noted, Welch Road is NOT east of Williams, but WEST of. It is assumed you are not referring to actual loops (as on Tehachapi Pass in California), but a horseshoe type of track layout. There is a horse shoe way off the main highway way out in the middle of nowhere. Unless you have access to a four wheel drive vehicle, I wouldn’t advise going out that way. That track out there only has a few trains a day.
The Transcon in Williams, on the other hand, sees 70-100 trains a day. Such tracks are especially accessible between Seligman and Kingman on Highway 66, except for a gap or two. Winslow to the east is a fun place, especially on a bridge on the west side of town.
Where will you be visiting from? It is hoped you drive on the same side of the road as we do in your country of residence, the right side. Otherwise, driving may be super challaging.
Have a great trip!
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Thank you all very much indeed gents for you help and advice, Yes, sorry, got my Easts and Wests mixed up a bit there (I blame a New Years hang over :-) ). I shall go to the Transcon at Williams rather than the horseshoe loop West of Williams. I am planning a bit of a trip over in the US. I took my boys (11 and 16) recently to FL and we went up to the Folkston Funnel and Jacksonville. Luckily, both my boys were 'bitten' by the railroad fan bug and want more.
So, we will be going to Cajon, Tehachapi and Jack London Square in San Frasisco too as well as the Sacremento RR museum if all goes to plan.
Thanks again for you help and Happy New Year to you from accross 'the pond' :-)
When you get to Williams find the US Forest Service office and purchase one of their maps which will show all of the PASSABLE WITHOUT 4 WHEEL DRIVE roads. There is one west from Williams that will take you to the horse shoe curves. This road will also take you to, and near to, sites where you may see the Transcon as it was relocated in 1960 through very primative terrain. When you return home please give us a follow-up report of your train sites visited.
phishplatephan (1-2A):
My, my, how much time will you have when visiting the States again?
In Williams, AZ access to the Transcon is not as easy as maps would suggest. Of course, access to the Grand Canyon train is easy.
West of Ask Fork, just off I-40, at the Exit 139, is the abandoned line from the 1959-1960 reroute diningcar was involved in.
In your travels west, you might want to travel the famous Route 66 that follow much of the Transcon.
May I suggest seeing the Barstow, CA area and the large BNSF classification yard there?
You say, phishplatephan, you might visit Cajon Pass. Now, that is my turf! But I seldom have time to railfan there. You may want to learn the local roads there that would allow you to visit the famous Summit.
Above, as you can see, Cajon Pass in this past August had the “Blue Cut” fire that ravaged the area for miles in just a few hours.
And, you can traverse the paved road that follows the Transcon on the east slope.
If you visit Cajon Pass, why not visit Colton too just some 25 miles away, where the Sunset Route crosses the Transcon, now over the Colton Flyover. Note the BNSF Transcon train on the right.
West Colton Yard is nearby too!
Tehachapi is cool with the famous Tehachapi Loop, and a few sections of Tehachapi Pass were recently two-tracked
You mentioned Jack London Square in the San Francisco Bay Area. The Square is actually in Oakland. Believe it or not, I’ve never visited that, but there is a two-track main running down the center of a downtown street.
UP’s Donner crossing is something to see, and its Feather River counterpart is spectacular.
It is unknown how much time you will have, but I recommend taking your time and seeing the wonders in California. The Transcon in Arizona and New Mexico has its own wonders. You will be very disappointed if you rush through everything. It would be like visiting the famous three pyramids in Egypt, and allow oneself five minutes to see it and rushing off. Thus, take your time, my friend. Extend your trip if possible. The rail things to see might very well make you stare at them for a long time, and that requires time.
Best,
Consider visiting Flagstaff, too:
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azdailysun.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/43/14397883-5b4b-5c58-aef8-100da192cc55/53fbc29b53288.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C752
Steam loco on display near the station:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/arizona/sfp25-glueck.jpg
May be another - a 2-6-6-2 - nearby: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/arizona/
Also stay at La Posada, a former Harvey House hotel - now restored, right next to the tracks and station at Winslow, AZ:
http://www.laposada.org/
And visit the Canyon Diablo bridge, though it may require a high-clearance vehicle to navigate the rough road to the bridge site:
This 4:14 YouTube video provides a good view and idea of what it's like there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUbhKYhWpoU
Other refs & photos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canyon_Diablo,_Arizona
http://www.theroadwanderer.net/railghosts.htm
http://www.hkhinc.com/arizona/diablo/
- Paul North.
Take a couple hours to stroll the shops and eating places in Williams. Pine Country Restaurant one block south of the trks in downtown Williams is a can't go wrong for the tummy
While the Grand Canyon RR is scenic in its own way, you only get a fleeting glimpse of the Canyon from the train, and the real canyon viewing is walking to the outlooks from the station. I recommend adding the Canyon shuttle tour to your GCRR package, if you are just spending a few hours at the Canyon.
An additional train ride I could recommend is the Verde Canyon RR, about a couple of hours south of Williams. The Verde Canyon is not as deep or grand as the Grand Canyon, however, it is a spectacular train ride thru the depth of the canyon. Also the nearby old mining town of Jerome, built up the side of a hill, is worth a look.
http://verdecanyonrr.com/
Wow, thanks for that Midland Mike. Never heard of that RR, just looked it up and it looks like a great trip out. My two boys would love the open cars. Thanks again for the info...
Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice offered to me for our planned trip to CA and AZ. Your help and guidance is really appreciated. Thanks guys :-) :-)
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