https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AerUaQQjtPQ
Happy Veterans Day!
And, all this was undone less than 21 years later, when the French surrendered to the Germans in the same car, in the same spot. The car was taken to Berlin--and apparently was destroyed in the bombing of Berlin, and the monument to the signing of the Armistice was blown up.
The "War to end all war," as our then president called it, engendered another, more horrible, war.
Johnny
Nice pictures.
The Armistice, coupled with the Treaty of Versailles, sowed the seeds for WWII. That railroad car became a symbol of a dishonrable defeat to many Germans, especially veterans, who bought into the myth of the Dolchstoßlegende (stab in the back). Thus, once France was defeated in 1940, the car was taken first to Berlin, later to Thuringia and burned by the SS to total destruction. [corrected as to the Compiegne car's disposition]
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimmThus, once France was defeated in 1940, the car was burned to total destruction.
I thought they did, in fact, haul it back to Berlin as a trophy. Far more value in having it as a memento of revenge than just torching it after it had 'served its purpose'.
I stand corrected as corrected. Do you have cites for the history of the car after 1940? I'd like to read the full details.
See correction above. As to citatations, I cannot recall specifics. Maybe Evans? I do recall reading that it was relocated to the Lustgarten in Berlin for display and later moved to a military base/Kz Lager near Gotha where the SS destroyed it.
In many parts of the world this is named Poppy Day, as per attached.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppyMy Father went Overseas in 1940, and returned.Another relative came back in very poor shape.
After the War, we called it 'Poppy Day'.Thank You, to them, especially.
NDG In many parts of the world this is named Poppy Day, as per attached.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppyMy Father went Overseas in 1940, and returned.Another relative came back in very poor shape. After the War, we called it 'Poppy Day'.Thank You, to them, especially.
It was originally and mostly still is to commemorate the dead of The Great War, i.e., WWI. The poppy was associated with the poppies in Flanders fields (Belgium) scene of so many deaths.
DeggestyAnd, all this was undone less than 21 years later, when the French surrendered to the Germans in the same car, in the same spot. The car was taken to Berlin--and apparently was destroyed in the bombing of Berlin, and the monument to the signing of the Armistice was blown up. The "War to end all war," as our then president called it, engendered another, more horrible, war.
Fear, hate, isolationism, nationalism, ethnicity and feelings of inferiority - all mixed together to create WW II.
Sounds too familiar in 2016.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Flanders Field was the work of a Canadian, and it was entensively used as a recruitment tool in that and other countries. One of the results is that red poppies are used as a rembrance symbol.
In Flanders fields the poppies blowBetween the crosses, row on row,That mark our place; and in the skyThe larks, still bravely singing, flyScarce heard amid the guns below.We are the Dead. Short days agoWe lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,Loved and were loved, and now we lieIn Flanders fields.Take up our quarrel with the foe:To you from failing hands we throwThe torch; be yours to hold it high.If ye break faith with us who dieWe shall not sleep, though poppies growIn Flanders fields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAwmDj6QZC4&t=19m39s
schlimm Nice pictures. The Armistice, coupled with the Treaty of Versailles, sowed the seeds for WWII. That railroad car became a symbol of a dishonrable defeat to many Germans, especially veterans, who bought into the myth of the Dolchstoßlegende (stab in the back). Thus, once France was defeated in 1940, the car was taken first to Berlin, later to Thuringia and burned by the SS to total destruction. [corrected as to the Compiegne car's disposition]
Anyone besides me find color photographs of Hitler to be a little scary? In black-and-white photos he's in the past and safely dead. In color photos it's like time has stopped and he's still out there, somewhere.
Anyway, the late Elie Wiesel summed up Hitler better than anyone: "Even dead, this man is still terrifying."
In the 1980s I bought the Minitrix N-scale Orient Express set and it's of this era, the dining car in the set is an almost exact replica of this one.
Firelock76 schlimm Nice pictures. The Armistice, coupled with the Treaty of Versailles, sowed the seeds for WWII. That railroad car became a symbol of a dishonrable defeat to many Germans, especially veterans, who bought into the myth of the Dolchstoßlegende (stab in the back). Thus, once France was defeated in 1940, the car was taken first to Berlin, later to Thuringia and burned by the SS to total destruction. [corrected as to the Compiegne car's disposition] Anyone besides me find color photographs of Hitler to be a little scary? In black-and-white photos he's in the past and safely dead. In color photos it's like time has stopped and he's still out there, somewhere. Anyway, the late Elie Wiesel summed up Hitler better than anyone: "Even dead, this man is still terrifying."
Oh yeah. Everyone, if you click on the picture, and click on the (+) that comes up you'll see Hermann Goering in his Lufwaffe field marshal's uniform just to the right of Hitler, then (I think) Grand Admiral Eric Raeder of the German Navy. The others I'm not sure of.
I'm guessing the shot was taken right after Hitler left the car, leaving further surrender details with the French to Field Marshal Keitel and General Jodl as I don't spot them in the group.
Here in Australia the poppy is used as a symbol on 11 November.
At the Australian War Memorial, just a block from my home, a large museum with a listing of the names of all war casualties, the poppies are used as markers next to the names. Somebody discovered (presumably on Remembrance Day) that the wire "stalk" of the poppy could be inserted into the joints in the cast bronze listing of the name. Now the wall is covered in poppies, an indication that the memorial is visited by relatives who look up the names on the wall.
Ironically, wild poppies grow in Australia in November. They are often seen alongside railway lines and I saw some last weekend. They are more orange in colour than the bright red artificial poppies used for Remembrance Day.
M636C
[quote user="M636C"]
Thank You, Sir.Being once part of the Dominion and singing God Save the King in school, before QE II, we received much regarding the War, and the contributions of so many, Overseas.ANZAC comes to mind, the Burma-Siam Railway of the recent movie 'The Railway Man', I read the book a few years ago. The Fall of Singapore, India and the Raj and their troops, and the loss of so many Capital Ships. VCs Galore.A sapper crew was sent to blow up the Great Goktiek Viaduct so it would not fall into Enemy hands. The signals got crossed, and it still stands today. Sent in Kit Form from USA C. 1903, w provision for second track on piers. Dreams!( My Grandfather was employed @ Vickers Shipbuilding, and MLW, died 1928 and he left a wealth of books concerning bridges, Tay, Forth, Quebec and various Tunnels. )Myself, a Son of the Empire, in ways and upbringing, from North of Hadrian's Wall, which was erected to keep the Southerners out, I was told, pulling my leg, over Sunday Meal dressed Formal, Silver and Linen, and a Toast. NO elbows on the TABLE! at least once. Kids received Grape Juice.Years ago, a relative broke his neck diving, just before JFK went to Dallas, and he was in hospital and care the rest of his life. He Died, A BLESSING, last Dec. 28 th.Anyway, for a while he was in a Veterans' Hospital, as they needed the space elsewhere. There were Vets in there who had Served in the Boer War, and some that were Gassed in WW I. We had a Section Foreman who Liberated Belsen. He's gone, too. Cancer, and I cried in my truck, a Chev, Thanks Dinah! when I saw him the day before he went.Nothing changes, does itThank You, Again, to so many.P.S. Poppies grow here, and, in Fall I go around cutting off the Pods, and removing the seeds. Have some in a jar in the cupboard from last year.
[quote user="NDG"]
M636C Thank You, Sir.Being once part of the Dominion and singing God Save the King in school, before QE II, we received much regarding the War, and the contributions of so many, Overseas.ANZAC comes to mind, the Burma-Siam Railway of the recent movie 'The Railway Man', I read the book a few years ago. The Fall of Singapore, India and the Raj and their troops, and the loss of so many Capital Ships. VCs Galore.A sapper crew was sent to blow up the Great Goktiek Viaduct so it would not fall into Enemy hands. The signals got crossed, and it still stands today. Sent in Kit Form from USA C. 1903, w provision for second track on piers. Dreams!( My Grandfather was employed @ Vickers Shipbuilding, and MLW, died 1928 and he left a wealth of books concerning bridges, Tay, Forth, Quebec and various Tunnels. )Myself, a Son of the Empire, in ways and upbringing, from North of Hadrian's Wall, which was erected to keep the Southerners out, I was told, pulling my leg, over Sunday Meal dressed Formal, Silver and Linen, and a Toast. NO elbows on the TABLE! at least once. Kids received Grape Juice.Years ago, a relative broke his neck diving, just before JFK went to Dallas, and he was in hospital and care the rest of his life. He Died, A BLESSING, last Dec. 28 th.Anyway, for a while he was in a Veterans' Hospital, as they needed the space elsewhere. There were Vets in there who had Served in the Boer War, and some that were Gassed in WW I. We had a Section Foreman who Liberated Belsen. He's gone, too. Cancer, and I cried in my truck, a Chev, Thanks Dinah! when I saw him the day before he went.Nothing changes, does itThank You, Again, to so many.P.S. Poppies grow here, and, in Fall I go around cutting off the Pods, and removing the seeds. Have some in a jar in the cupboard from last year.
I work in our Defence Headquarters. On Friday the Last Post, Minute's silence and Reveille were broadcast on the public address system, and we stood to attention.
My father was in the Australian Army during WWII, and was posted to Egypt, Palestine, New Guinea and Borneo.
An uncle served in France in WWI, and suffered a gas attack. He was classified as "Totally and Permanently Incapacitated". His last job was a driving instructor.
My grandfather emigrated from Aberdeen, Scotland. I can only just remember him but when I visited Aberdeen, I found everyone had an accent that sounded like my family.
There is a railway station named ANZAC in the wilds of British Columbia. I found a CN coal train idling there in 1986 with nobody around for miles. I'm told that the Australian Army did some construction work there during WWI.
Life certainly is a Global Affair, as is War.
I hoped we could have designed an end to all that in my time.
Introspection, remorse and tiredness plague me, now.
Thank You.
A funeral for a WW-2 vet who served both in the British army and then the US army had both the British last post and American taps played. Wish had a link to the British that could post here.
The British equivalent to "Taps" is called "The Last Post":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXjeTydLoI
Very majestic and stirring, the "Last Post."
It's still played to this day, every evening, at the British military cemetarys in Northern Europe, especially the ones from World War One. There was a "time out," for lack of a better term, during the German occupation from 1940 to 1944, but as soon as the last German soldier was out of the area the custom began again and has continued to this day.
As far as British music from the Great War is concerned, none moves me more than "I vow to thee my country." Lovely tune, sublime lyrics. Perfectly captures the zeitgeist of 100 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvouc8Qs_MI
Very touching Wanswheel ...I thank you sincerely for finding and posting this.
NDGLife certainly is a Global Affair, as is War. I hoped we could have designed an end to all that in my time. Introspection, remorse and tiredness plague me, now. Thank You.
Hate when preached has a way of turning reasonable people into morons and vent their spleen - not understanding what they are asking for.
My apologies for not explaining "The Last Post".
I've attended ceremonies on Remembrance Day and on ANZAC Day (25 April, the date of the Gallipoli landing, which is probably more important in Australia and NZ, when veterans march to the various memorials) more times than I could count.
To get back to the rail content earlier in the thread, I thought I might talk a little about 2419 D. The D stands for Dining car, although it is listed as a WR (Wagon Restaurant). It had a varnished teak body, as seen in the photo with Hitler. It was fairly new, having been built by Compagnie Generale de Construction (a Wagons Lits subsidiary) in St Denis (a Paris suburb) in 1914, part of a batch of 22, 2403 to 2424. George Behrend's list says it was destroyed at Hitler's instructions in 1944. However, there were two other batches totalling 15 cars, 2425 to 2439 built at the same time to the same design.
In 1945, 2439 was renumbered 2419 and replaced the original on display at Compiegne. In fact, the original 2419 had been returned to service in 1919 as a 48 seat dining car, and only in 1921 was it returned to its wartime condition and put on display. So the interior of 2439 now is no more original than that used by Hitler in 1940....
http://www.usmbooks.com/surrender_train.html
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