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Fluffy ballast

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Fluffy ballast
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, August 18, 2016 7:15 AM

 

        I came upon something yesterday that looked like a large version of the Tasmanian Devil cartoon character. Once I got close, I figured out it was a machine fluffing up the ballast on the railroad tracks.  It looked like an oversize John Deer riding lawn mower with a snow blower on the front and a street sweeper broom on the back. That thing could kick up some dust!

      It seems to me that this machine fluffs the ballast and blasts all the dust out between the rocks.  Doesn’t the dust settle back down into the rocks?  Does another machine follow to rake or pack down the ballast? Would this be a routine maintenance procedure on most railroad lines, or simply done when you have a trouble spot?

      I think one of the reasons this machine intrigued me is that since I was a kid, I have dreamed of some day running a street sweeper down a gravel road- sort of a dust Zamboni.Mischief I know- my bucket list differs a lot from the norm.

 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 18, 2016 7:32 AM

Sounds like a ballast regulator.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:54 AM

    Yes, but the one I saw was a lot dustier. Clown

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Posted by RME on Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:12 AM

Murphy Siding
It seems to me that this machine fluffs the ballast and blasts all the dust out between the rocks. Doesn’t the dust settle back down into the rocks?

The dust is entirely an afterthought.  The purpose of the machine is to move any ballast off the tops of the ties down into the 'cribs' between them, and thereby keep stray rocks from bouncing where they shouldn't go, etc.  There would be little point in 'blasting the dust out' unless there had been serious fouling of some kind earlier -- in which case a very different, and much larger, set of machinery has to be used to dig the ballast up, wash and size it, and return it - see this page for a discussion.

Might be interesting to have someone comment on whether snowmobile trail grooming on railroad rights-of-way benefits from a regulator 'pass' -- I know we have at least one expert on grooming in the forum.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:27 AM

Fluffy ballast, that's whats left after the CAT Tamper goes through.

Sorry, couldn't stop myself.

Jeff

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:29 AM

Ballast regulator...like the ubitquious Kershaw Model 46 pictured, rotary broom on one end and adjustable plow on the other, plus adjustable box scoops to carry & move ballast up and down the shoulders....The tamper, pup tamper and possible other parts of the surfacing gang (compactor/ vibrator/ etc) must be nearby.

You do not want ballast over the tie because you do want to avoid keeping moisture/water around the tie. You also want the shoulders against the tie to hold the track in place without overdoing it (wasting ballast) or underdoing it (triggering a sun kink)....

Fluffing??? LaughLaughLaugh ... some of the crews I have call 'em "rock throwers"

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, August 18, 2016 10:44 AM

Fluffing.  Dat's right...we fluff up da bed for all da sleepers.  

I was the guy who came along afterwards and ate up da mints from da pillows.  Dat's why dey called me deminted.


Carl

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:15 AM

You do realize that no good PUN goes unPUNished! Clown

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:51 PM

The post-op painkillers may be getting to him. Then again...Mischief

 

(he sat up in a tower for an awful long time)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:26 PM

Ballast regulators have been known to have a snowblower attached to the broom end for use in yards, etc.  They can still plow snow with the other end...   While I have my doubts you'd see one on a mainline, it's not impossible, but would be impossibly slow...

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:38 PM

mudchicken

The post-op painkillers may be getting to him. Then again...Mischief

 

(he sat up in a tower for an awful long time)

 

I was going to suggest that he get his meds changed.

Johnny

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:36 PM

Deggesty

 

 
mudchicken

The post-op painkillers may be getting to him. Then again...Mischief

 

(he sat up in a tower for an awful long time)

 

 

 

I was going to suggest that he get his meds changed.

 

 

      Definitely, seems like a case of 'over-medication'  Oops - Sign  

Hope Carl's not out trying to ride his bicycle...... It would really be bad if he got down by that Oak Lawn Station, and one of those engineers tried to run over him while he was laid out on " Da Lawn"---  'Deminted'  MischiefSmile, Wink & GrinSmile, Wink & GrinLaugh

 

 


 

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:55 PM

CShaveRR
Fluffing.  Dat's right...we fluff up da bed for all da sleepers.  

BowBest RR pun of the week, maybe the month!Wink

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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, August 18, 2016 7:34 PM

Deggesty
 
mudchicken

The post-op painkillers may be getting to him. Then again...Mischief

 

(he sat up in a tower for an awful long time)

 

 

 

I was going to suggest that he get his meds changed.

 

 

Why?

Them seem to be working just fine.....Stick out tongue

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Buslist on Friday, August 19, 2016 2:24 AM

CShaveRR

Fluffing.  Dat's right...we fluff up da bed for all da sleepers.  


 

 

Actually I should point out that this isn't too far from wrong. "Ballast Fluffing" does have some basis in fact. A team of North American and British researchers embarked on a research program to look at ballast gradation (yes the distribution of rock sizes is a critical parameter) and tamper vibration frequency on the state of ballast compaction after tamping.

 

If one really looks at the function of a tamper it is to lift the track and squeeze additional ballast under the ties to fill the void. Vibration is applied to provide some level of consolidation to the newly introduced ballast. The problem is that in doing so the tamper tines disturbed the traffic consolidated ballast bed. Careful ballast density measurements indicated that they were 80-85% of pre tamping levels, so yes in deed tamping FLUFFED UP the ballast. This, if you think about it resulted is some uneven track not too long after surfacing especially if the track surface was quite irregular prior to surfacing.

 

The industry responded in several ways. In the UK they adopted something called "Stone Blowing" that injected stone under the ties(sleepers) without disturbing the traffic consolidated ballast bed. 

 

Although Amtrak almost tried Stone Blowing on its inter lockers (a change in Chief Engineers to a technically clueless politically appointed one killed that).  

 

In North America most roads adopted a device that Plasser developed in response to this research, the ballast consolidator. This beast has vibrating plates that slide along the shoulder behind the tamper to restore some degree of consolidation close to that obtained under traffic. ( there is a lot more to this story but only so much time and space)

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 19, 2016 4:37 AM

And after the 'fluffer' does it's job, the next job to be done is to put out the slow order on the 'fluffed' track until it can get settled into a continuing stable position from trains passing over the fluffed track.

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Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, August 19, 2016 5:56 AM
Wonder if it runs a Fluffy Hemi?

Carl's meds seem to be working just fine, mine could use some work, though...........

(For those not familiar with the first line, there is a racing engine building company named Fluffy, at least one tractor pulling team runs Fluffy Hemis...........)

Randy Vos

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Friday, August 19, 2016 10:59 AM

Buslist
In North America most roads adopted a device that Plasser developed in response to this research, the ballast consolidator. This beast has vibrating plates that slide along the shoulder behind the tamper to restore some degree of consolidation close to that obtained under traffic. ( there is a lot more to this story but only so much time and space)

The Plasser American page on consolidators.  See the videos on the product pages for examples, especially the PTS90C transportable unit.  

It's like "magic fingers" for roadbeds.  And you don't have to put in a quarter for 15 minutes.  (Well, you need a lot a quarters up front, but that's a whole other story.)

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Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, August 19, 2016 11:08 AM

Sam, I'm under strict orders to stay off the bike for at least two months.  And my "enforcer" heard that, and the date is marked on our calendar.  (Oak Lawn is a bit out of the way for anything I normally do.)

I also can't mow the lawn, or lift heavy weights (over 15 pounds).  I am allowed to drive, as long as I'm no longer on the strong pain meds (Advil is working just fine now).  But walking is highly recommended (and I got four miles in yesterday).  

And world-class puns don't often come from a medicated mind!  Wink

Carl

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 19, 2016 6:01 PM

CShaveRR


And world-class puns don't often come from a medicated mind!  Wink

 

Perhaps, but I bet a lot 60's pop music lyrics did.Stick out tongue

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, August 19, 2016 6:42 PM

The best way to consolidate ballast is to keep running trains over the surfaced area at different speeds.  The big mechanical vibrators can only do so much in a pass or two. (enough to concern some about their fillings in their teeth.) It's all about putting energy into the ground and minimizing voids.

The "prussian flappers" that predated the "shakin boxcars" would fit the fluffing theme here.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 19, 2016 6:51 PM

On my territory, after the fluffers do their thing - a 10 MPH slow order is put out on the territory that got fluffed.  MofW then requests that at least 2 5,000 tons 'tonnage' trains operate over the fluffed territory, then after satisfactory MofW inspection the slow order will be changed to 25 MPH.  Passenger trains do not count as tonnage trains on my territory - no matter how many operate over the segment.  After 24 to 36 hours of 25 MPH operation and further inspection the slow order will be raised to 50 MPH and another 24 hours will get the slow order removed and track speed will be permitted.  MofW stays in contact with the Train Dispatcher so that they know what trains have operated over the affected territory.

Successful railroading requires a steady well maintained track structure.

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Friday, August 19, 2016 6:58 PM

mudchicken
The "prussian flappers" that predated the "shakin boxcars" would fit the fluffing theme here.

Sounds like a couple of 60's garage bands to me!

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 19, 2016 9:23 PM

BaltACD

On my territory, after the fluffers do their thing - a 10 MPH slow order is put out on the territory that got fluffed.  MofW then requests that at least 2 5,000 tons 'tonnage' trains operate over the fluffed territory, then after satisfactory MofW inspection the slow order will be changed to 25 MPH.  Passenger trains do not count as tonnage trains on my territory - no matter how many operate over the segment.  After 24 to 36 hours of 25 MPH operation and further inspection the slow order will be raised to 50 MPH and another 24 hours will get the slow order removed and track speed will be permitted.  MofW stays in contact with the Train Dispatcher so that they know what trains have operated over the affected territory.

Successful railroading requires a steady well maintained track structure.

 

What would the MoW inspector be looking for- rocks out of place?

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Posted by CPRcst on Friday, August 19, 2016 9:30 PM

Up here in Canada, at least on CP, a ballast regulator equipped with a broom and a snow plow is called a "snow fighter".

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 19, 2016 10:12 PM

Murphy Siding
BaltACD

On my territory, after the fluffers do their thing - a 10 MPH slow order is put out on the territory that got fluffed.  MofW then requests that at least 2 5,000 tons 'tonnage' trains operate over the fluffed territory, then after satisfactory MofW inspection the slow order will be changed to 25 MPH.  Passenger trains do not count as tonnage trains on my territory - no matter how many operate over the segment.  After 24 to 36 hours of 25 MPH operation and further inspection the slow order will be raised to 50 MPH and another 24 hours will get the slow order removed and track speed will be permitted.  MofW stays in contact with the Train Dispatcher so that they know what trains have operated over the affected territory.

Successful railroading requires a steady well maintained track structure.

What would the MoW inspector be looking for- rocks out of place?

mudchicken is the expert in that area.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by mudchicken on Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:55 AM

BaltACD
 
Murphy Siding
BaltACD

On my territory, after the fluffers do their thing - a 10 MPH slow order is put out on the territory that got fluffed.  MofW then requests that at least 2 5,000 tons 'tonnage' trains operate over the fluffed territory, then after satisfactory MofW inspection the slow order will be changed to 25 MPH.  Passenger trains do not count as tonnage trains on my territory - no matter how many operate over the segment.  After 24 to 36 hours of 25 MPH operation and further inspection the slow order will be raised to 50 MPH and another 24 hours will get the slow order removed and track speed will be permitted.  MofW stays in contact with the Train Dispatcher so that they know what trains have operated over the affected territory.

Successful railroading requires a steady well maintained track structure.

What would the MoW inspector be looking for- rocks out of place?

 

mudchicken is the expert in that area.

 

Just about any uneven settlement/consolidation issue that might occur, usually a dip or crosslevel issue along with what the rail is doing after being re-alligned by the other parts of the surfacing gang. (sun kinks or pull aparts/ rail up in the plates)

(Rocks out of place?: Foghorn Leghorn had the solution for that with his feathersSmile, Wink & Grin)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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