The topic about radio use on railroads reminded me of something I've wondered about.
How did engineers on trains with two or more steam engines communicate so they weren't operating their locomotives at cross purposes? And did the lead locomotive engineer have authority over the engineer of the following locomotive(s)?
Thx.
It's been my understanding that there were specific whistle signals.
Add to that knowledge of specific practices for a given territory and I'm sure things usually went smoothly.
I have read that a pusher would "lean in" to the train to the point of stalling at the start, then adjust the throttle as needed. Obviously, that would bunch the slack for some portion of the train, allowing the head end to start that much more easily.
Operating as a helper at the head end had different considerations, and I don't even begin to claim to know what they are/were.
Recall, too, that in the early days of Dieseldom, not all Diesels could be MU'd, meaning that a head end helper still had to communicate with the actual head end (the assigned loco), as well as pushers, and radios weren't in play during that period.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
GrampHow did engineers on trains with two or more steam engines communicate so they weren't operating their locomotives at cross purposes?
Whistle signals. It's possible that some passenger engines could use the internal communications line to signal between engines, but I don't know if all railroads carried that line to the front of passenger power.
Naturally you'd also be watching the brake-pipe pressure as that would give you a reasonable guide moment-to-moment what was happening with the train.
And did the lead locomotive engineer have authority over the engineer of the following locomotive(s)?
Probably depended to an extent on the railroad, or rules involved. Naturally the road engineer would have authority over a 'helper' or 'snapper' engineer, but you'd then have to know whether the helper was cut in behind the road power or 'on the point' for easy removal. View down the track was better from the forward engine, of course ... but not much improved, and signals of course were equally easy to call and confirm from either engine.
There have been some discussions here in the past on the 'best' way to use throttle, cutoff, and brake when running as a helper. This would be somewhat different for an 'assist' up a grade than it would be for the sort of doubleheaded operation PRR ran on many of its major passenger trains (approximating a large 12-drivered four-cylinder 90-mph-+ locomotive) where it would almost be assumed that both engineers were reading the road and reacting independently and the only use of whistle signals would be when one engineer had an emergent problem or 'surprise' issue he needed the other to recognize -- probably a warning that the automatic was about to be applied hard and so to start taking the necessary actions to cut power on a high-speed locomotive expeditiously.
I also suspect that, in situations where the rules did not define the 'engineer-in-command', the men involved would agree between themselves who would be responsible for what, who'd "host" a road pilot, etc.
I did have one experience in the cab of the lead engine that was followed by another steam engine which indicated that my engineer was in charge, and the man running the second engine followed his lead. I don't know if the second engineer shut the steam off, as my friend did, just as we entered a tunnel, but that action may have been at his discretion. I'm sure that the passengers on the excursion appreciated not having to breathe a lot of smoke.
Johnny
There have been stories in Railroad and Railfan about 844 helping a stalled UP freight that had a failed diesel when the dispatcher asked for his help. Where Steve Lee coupled onto the end of the train, (after removing the FRED and connecting the brake line) and after communicating with the lead engineer, opened the throttle and waited for the remaining diesels to start the train. Then got them to the terminal.
When I saw a Metra BNSF train's locomotive fail because it could not come out of Dynamic Brakeing Mode, it had to be pushed by the following (an hour behind) train. The lead cab car engineer controlled the brakes. The pusher trains cab car engineer controled the throttle and got his direction from the lead cab car. Did not strike me as ideal but I've experienced it three times over the last forty years. The first time was on the UP west line 7:00 AM from Lombard and I was late to work. Fortunatly, it was the morning rush hour and the train that pushed us was only a few minutes behind us.
How about you Carl.
Bob
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