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New $8 Billion dollar railroad proposed for the Midwest (yeah I am serious).

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New $8 Billion dollar railroad proposed for the Midwest (yeah I am serious).
Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:04 PM

Honestly, I have no idea what the thinking is here but I stumbled across the article while researching western Wisconsin bike trails to ride on.     I can't see this proposal will ever get far.     Click on the blue link in the article to see the route map.

http://www.wkow.com/story/31519338/2016/03/19/8-billion-railroad-proposal-through-rural-rock-county-worries-farmers-as-60-day-public-hearing-opens

 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:27 PM

The Great Lakes Basin RR.  Nothing new there. AFAIK, they have no funding so far or any support from the Big 6.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:32 PM

We've had comments about this 'project' in several threads already.

Not to troll, but the STB comments page is here... and the deadline is now July 15th with no further extensions. 

If I'm not mistaken, there are now several of the involved Class Is that have formally announced that they have no, or 'less than no', interest in participating in this project (in other words, espousing it, helping to fund it, or sending traffic to it for the cost anticipated.)  That is not a tremendously hopeful sign.  It may be that everyone in the business is anticipating what will happen after the original projectors lose their butts trying to build it and have to sell out at pennies on the dollar for the equivalent of cold, hard cash.  (In fact, I now predict there would be several generations of projectors losing their butts on this before it settles out...)

Of course, none of this would be particularly useful for either HSR or HrSR to intermediate communities, optimized as it is to keep as many people as possible (other than farmers) out of the Blast Zone.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 5:02 PM

Quoting part of the article "Ultimately, Patton says it's not about cutting up a farmer's land, but finding a way to make the project move full-steam ahead. In other words, "what do we care about the problems the current land owners will have? "We're going to do this, and it bothers us not a whit what hardships it inflicts on the current land owners."

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Posted by csxns on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 5:08 PM

Deggesty
"We're going to do this, and it bothers us not a whit what hardships it inflicts on the current land owners."

They take land from owners to build highways why not for railroads.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:34 PM

csxns

 

 
Deggesty
"We're going to do this, and it bothers us not a whit what hardships it inflicts on the current land owners."

 

They take land from owners to build highways why not for railroads.

 

 

Highways are generally open to anyone who has a vehicle to travel on them--railroads are not quite so open access.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:40 PM

Deggesty

Quoting part of the article "Ultimately, Patton says it's not about cutting up a farmer's land, but finding a way to make the project move full-steam ahead. In other words, "what do we care about the problems the current land owners will have? "We're going to do this, and it bothers us not a whit what hardships it inflicts on the current land owners."

 

I doubt if it will happen.  However, putting your made-up, spun sentence in quotes makes it appear as though Patton had also said those words. Disingenuous at a minimum.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:59 PM

Deggesty
 
csxns

 

 
Deggesty
"We're going to do this, and it bothers us not a whit what hardships it inflicts on the current land owners."

 

They take land from owners to build highways why not for railroads.

 

 

 

 

Highways are generally open to anyone who has a vehicle to travel on them--railroads are not quite so open access.

 

 

  Sounds like the Lawyers are winding up in the 'bull pen,' and making plans to use " Eminent Domain".. If this project get the green light, the land owners need to hunker down, and brace for the battle... They might succeed...    A good read might be "Citizens to Preserve Overton Park v. Volpe" 401 U.S. 402 (1971)[1], "...is a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States that established the basic legal framework for judicial review of the actions of administrative agencies. It also stands as a notable example of the power of litigation by grassroots citizen movements to block government action..."       

       This was a 12 to 13 year long battle to prevent the building of I-40 through Overton Park in Memphis,Tn.  The struggle to complete that highway link at one point lead some Memphians to say"... I-40 started on the East Coast, and went straight to Overton Park, and from Overton Park to the West Coast..."    

 

 


 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:50 PM

Before they get eminent domain, they will have to show need.  Thee fact that the potential users of the line are not interested in sending traffic that way, shows a lack of need.

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:59 PM

Was there really a need to start a new thread on this proposal?

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/246855.aspx

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Posted by IslandMan on Monday, October 31, 2016 1:41 PM

Would the new line achieve anything that couldn't be done as part of CREATE? 

The EJ&E sort of mirrors the proposed line. Would it be possible to multi-track and upgrade the EJ&E (for example, bridging roads where grade crossings now exist, improving junctions with other lines), especially the part skirting the south of Chicago?  This would tend to avoid the NIMBY problem as no new rail corridor would be created.

For obvious commercial reasons Canadian National would not be enthusiastic about making life easier for other Class Is and they in turn would not wish to depend on CN to bypass Chicago. This is where CREATE  (i.e state) funding might come in useful. In return for CREATE paying for multi-tracking/upgrading the J, CN would be expected to enter into a trackage rights agreement, or something similar, with other relevant Class Is.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, October 31, 2016 9:15 PM

CN's plan to merely increase traffic on the EJ&E brought out strong NIMBY opposition from the trendy suburbs, and CN had to do a lot of mitigation.  Double tracking would be a huge fight.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 6:57 AM

Most NIMBYs would be placated by turning grade crossings into grade separations and by additional soiund-control barriers.  A good idea.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 7:39 AM

daveklepper

Most NIMBYs would be placated by turning grade crossings into grade separations and by additional soiund-control barriers.  A good idea.

They think that is a great idea; as long as someone else is paying for it.

Norm


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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:32 AM

daveklepper

Most NIMBYs would be placated by turning grade crossings into grade separations and by additional soiund-control barriers.  A good idea.

 

I don't know about most NIMBYs, but my brother lives in the west suburbs of Chicago, and it seems the suburbanites along that part of the former EJ&E are incredulous that a freight line even runs thru their town.

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Posted by IslandMan on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 1:36 PM

There were concerns along the EJ&E about freight trains on grade crossings effectively cutting communities in half for long periods, causing problems for school runs and delaying access by the emergency services. Noise was another issue.

Elimination of grade crossings would solve the first problem. A line with 2 trains per day and grade crossings will be more of a nuisance than one with 20 trains per day and no grade crossings.

As for noise, replacing jointed track with continuous-welded rail would help and for a busy line would reduce maintenance anyway. Elimination of grade crossings and better fencing would reduce the need to sound locomotive horns. Sound barriers could be used to shield sensitive locations from noise.

 Communities along the J have lived with a railroad in their midst for very many years.  The source of local concerns stems from the fact that an old line is being asked to do a much bigger job than it did before. Bring the line into the 21st century whilst also increasing its capacity and you might find that local people are more positive.

 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 2:00 PM

IslandMan
There were concerns along the EJ&E about freight trains on grade crossings effectively cutting communities in half for long periods, causing problems for school runs and delaying access by the emergency services. Noise was another issue.

Elimination of grade crossings would solve the first problem. A line with 2 trains per day and grade crossings will be more of a nuisance than one with 20 trains per day and no grade crossings.

As for noise, replacing jointed track with continuous-welded rail would help and for a busy line would reduce maintenance anyway. Elimination of grade crossings and better fencing would reduce the need to sound locomotive horns. Sound barriers could be used to shield sensitive locations from noise.

 Communities along the J have lived with a railroad in their midst for very many years.  The source of local concerns stems from the fact that an old line is being asked to do a much bigger job than it did before. Bring the line into the 21st century whilst also increasing its capacity and you might find that local people are more positive.

Grade separation in the flat lands it an expensive proposition for 'someone'!  The local governments don't want the expense nor do the railroads.  When that conundrum is solved something will happen.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 2:04 PM

The J is near, about one mile away.  Since most of their crossings are "hornless" (not expensive to implement) one hardly notices it. On the other hand, the old IC  (also owned by CN) is less busy but noisier with some crossings with horns, some hornless.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 4:51 PM

BaltACD
Grade separation in the flat lands it an expensive proposition for 'someone'! 

A lasting memory of riding with the family on Highway 401 between Windsor and London is the numerous overpasses for the local roads - all of which had to be built up as the land in that part of Ontario resembles a billiards table.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, November 2, 2016 12:42 PM

schlimm
The J is near, about one mile away.  Since most of their crossings are "hornless" (not expensive to implement) one hardly notices it. On the other hand, the old IC  (also owned by CN) is less busy but noisier with some crossings with horns, some hornless.

Needed a good LaughLaughLaughfor the week. Blows up the whining and complaining of the knucklehead political hacks of Schlimm's persuasion in congress this year trying to dumb down the Train Horn Rule implementation costs.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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