Will Riding Electric Trains cause cancer?

[Puckdropper]

QUOTE:
Is that anything like the 'astronauts' who wanted to go to the SUN

They found the sun was too bright to look at, so they decided to go at night!

[Anonymous]

I went to the American Cancer Society website. I knew that creosote could be harmful, but did you know that diesel exhaust and wood dust are carcinogens too? It would be interesting to see if there are any risks of cancer associated with being a railroader around diesel locomotives?

Welp, back to oil-fired steam and gas-mechanical cars, eh [;)]?

See you around the forums,
Daniel Parks

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Well gee whiz, we can't live or work in brick buildings either because of radon emissions?

Anyone remember : "Ban nuclear & fossil fuel energy, let the bastards freeze in the dark"?

Is that anything like the 'astronauts' who wanted to go to the SUN [?]

[mudchicken]

Well gee whiz, we can't live or work in brick buildings either because of radon emissions?

Anyone remember : "Ban nuclear & fossil fuel energy, let the bastards freeze in the dark"?

[Anonymous]

I know two different people who reside right next to a large electrical substation. Theyve been alive and well longer than I have so I think riding electric trains is just fine.

Anything can cause cancer given the right variables. What gives one guy cancer makes another live longer in my opinion. There is no set pattern. When it is your turn to climb the golden stairway or cash in your tokens, or however you want to say it , you'll go do it.

[edblysard]

I was just wondering if falling on your head a bunch of times had anything to do with it?

Ed[8D]

[DSchmitt]

Counteract the effects of electricity, move into to a radioactive waste dump[:D]

"Ionizing Radiation Monster
Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., and Robert J. Cihak, M.D.
Wednesday, March 31, 2004
The Geiger counter chatters. The glowing monster rises out of the greenish water. “It’s ... radioactive.” And everybody knows we’re in big trouble.
So went the Moment of Truth line from several hundred grade-B-and-worse sci-fi movies of the ’50s.

The image sticks even among those of us who’ve never seen such movies. It’s part of our cultural DNA, this notion that ionizing radiation in any amount is always and forever bad for you. Scientists call this the linear no-threshold hypothesis (LNT). Only problem is, it’s scientifically wrong, emotionally pernicious and economically damaging.

Every doctor knows, and common sense indicates, that nothing - and everything - is poisonous. It all depends on the dosage.

Further, your Medicine Men have long observed that most people don’t get enough radiation. Now comes a story that provides some remarkable additional corroboration.

In Taiwan, an estimated 10,000 Taiwanese people received low doses of radiation for up to 20 years. Many continue to do so in an “unintended experiment” which again demonstrates that supplemental low doses of radiation are indeed good for you.

These Taiwanese people lived in some 1,700 apartments that used construction steel accidentally mixed with discarded cobalt-60 radiation sources. Cobalt-60 is a radioactive isotope of cobalt used as a source of gamma rays for human radiation therapy treatment, preserving food freshness and making X-ray images of metal parts.

These apartment buildings were built between 1982 and 1984; the radioactivity was discovered over several years, starting in 1992. The radiation dosage has been steadily decreasing, due to the natural decay of radioactivity with time, a phenomenon called “half-life.”

The half-life of cobalt-60 is 5.3 years, which means that the radiation released drops by half every 5.3 years. After 10.6 years, the rate is one-quarter the original rate. After four half-lives, or 21.2 years for cobalt-60, the rate is one-sixteenth the original rate.

Had this discovery been made in America, the result would have been media histrionics, about three zillion lawsuits, extensive congressional posturing leading to more incomprehensible and unnecessary regulation, perhaps even a grade-B-or-worse movie in which the scientist heroine whispers ominous phrases such as “It’s radioactive.”

Fortunately, over in Taiwan, some scientists decided to take a look at what had actually happened to the people accidentally exposed.

In the Spring 2004 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, W.L. Chen, director of the Department of Medical Radiation Technology at National Yang-Ming University and Head of the Radiation Protection Department of the Atomic Energy Council (AEC) of Taiwan, plus more than a dozen co-author scientists describe this "serendipitous experiment" and report some preliminary findings in "Is Chronic Radiation an Effective Prophylaxis Against Cancer?" [http://www.jpands.org/vol9no1/chen.pdf] These preliminary observations are striking.

The authors estimate that these people received an average of 0.4 Sievert (Sv), a measure of absorbed ionizing radiation dose, over their years of exposure. This is more than 10 times the dose other Taiwanese receive from natural background radiation. Conventional wisdom and current regulatory precautions would suggest an epidemic of cancer and related diseases. In fact, rather the opposite occurred.

For example, during the 1983-2002 period, the average cancer mortality in Taiwan was 116 deaths per 100,000 person-years. But for the people receiving the supplemental radiation, the number was 3.5 deaths per 100,000 person-years – only 3 percent of the rate for the general Taiwanese population!

Further, the rate of significant birth deformities or congenital malformations, including conditions such as heart disease, Down syndrome and cerebral palsy, was 6.5 percent of the rate in the general population, also strikingly lower than expected – and also the opposite of what the linear no-threshold hypothesis (LNT) predicts.

The authors also report that the chromosome studies done for the AEC "indicated that groups that received higher doses seemed to have lower levels of chromosome aberrations."

Also, "Medical examinations did not reveal the presence of any harmful radiation sickness syndromes. ..." Hospital officials "had no evidence that the radiation had caused any harmful effects."

These findings will be refined over time. Future studies will review the age distribution, plus the overall health and mortality of these people in future years.

Other human populations exposed to ionizing radiation, for example nuclear shipyard workers in this country and radiologists in England, show decreased cancer deaths and increased longevity among those receiving supplemental radiation. So it's likely that further studies of this Taiwanese population will be at least as striking.

Why does this matter? One reason, obviously, is that government policy based on wrong – indeed, willfully wrong – junk science makes for lousy policy.

All of these findings contradict the outdated and superstitious idea that every little bit of radiation humans receive adds to the potential for cancer or other problems. Yet this disproven linear no-threshold hypothesis remains the basis for radiation protection standards, inflicting huge economic and health costs around the world.

Radiation, Science, and Health, Inc.(RSH), an international nonprofit organization of independent individuals knowledgeable about radiation health effects science, estimates "Public radiation protection costs/funds exceed U.S. $1 trillion that provide NO public health benefit." And this doesn't include the costs of the burgeoning civilian “radiation protection” industry, that feeds off phobias about things ranging from radioactive dirty bombs to basement radon to medical uses of radiation.

We humans already have more than enough real problems to worry about.

Editor's Note: Robert J. Cihak wrote this week's column. He has edited some of the publications on the Radiation, Science, and Health website."

[Overmod]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Rumored to cure erectile dysfunction!!!
Randy

Yes, you certainly seem to be...

judging by this, and by your previous comment to Peter (M636C) regarding his knowledge of women,

[Anonymous]

We'll all likely die from as-yet-undiscovered zeta-particles emitted from computer keyboards that interact with the bad stuff they just discovered in shampoo. [:)]

I remember reading about a NASA experiment where they towed a really long wire behind the Shuttle through the earths magnetic field to see how much power would be generated. If I remember right, they got more than they bargained for and the wire melted. [:)]

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Clevelandrocks

I recomend The Shaker Rapid or MARC Trains from DC to Martinsburg PA as being healthy runs because of Low Impact. The MARC Trains are more like Long Distance Passenger Trains then like Subway style New Haven Metro North Trains.

Rumored to cure erectile dysfuntion!!!
Randy

[Overmod]

Well, while you're at it, you might mention that everyone ever exposed to dihydrogen monoxide will eventually die...

BTW, the crackling insulators are a very different physical effect. Electrons trying to bypass insulation are not the same as electromagnetic field effects. You might "worry" about getting too close to a support that has a 'talking' insulator, just as you wouldn't want to be too close to a lightning strike, but not for the reason that you're worried about cancer or insomnia... ;-}

[mvlandsw]

Being born is the most hazardous thing you can do. It leads to a 100% death rate.

[Anonymous]

BIOGRAPHY
John Cheever (1912-1982), the leading exponent of the kind of carefully fashioned story of modern suburban manners that The New Yorker popularized, has been called by the reviewer John Leonard "the Chekhov of the suburbs." Cheever spent most of his life in New York City and in suburban towns similar to the ones he described in much of his fiction. Born in Quincy, Massachusetts, he was raised by parents who owned a prosperous business that failed after the 1929 stock market crash. His parents enjoyed reading literature to him, so at an early age he was acquainted with the fiction of Charles Dickens, Jack London, and Robert Louis Stevenson.

He started his career at an unusually young age. Expelled from Thayer Academy for being, by his own account, a "quarrelsome, intractable... and lousy student," he moved to New York City, lived in a cell of a room on a bread-and-buttermilk diet, and wrote stories. When his first one, "Expelled," was accepted for publication by Malcolm Cowley, then editor of the New Republic, Cheever was launched as a teenager into a career as a writer of fiction.

Cheever's first collection of stories, The Way Some People Live, appeared in 1942, while he was completing a four-year stint of army duty. In 1953 he strengthened his literary reputation with the book The Enormous Radio and Other Stories, a collection of fourteen of his New Yorker pieces. Six years later appeared another story collection, The Housebreaker of Shady Hill. In the 1960s and 1970s he published three more books of short stories and two widely acclaimed novels, Bullet Park (1969) and Falconer (1977). The Stories of John Cheever, published in 1978, won both the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Critics Circle Award and became one of the few collections of short stories ever to make the New York Times bestseller list. In more than fifty years, Cheever published over 200 magazine stories; he figured that he earned "enough money to feed the family and buy a new suit every other year."

[CSXrules4eva]

Ut oh, reading this article scares me. I live only one city block away from high tention power lines owned by PECO. I also ride SEPTA's high speed or should I say "high voltage" line 24/7. Also a friend of mine lives right behind them and evey day walkes his dogs underneath the lines. Mabe this is an explination of his irregular sleep patterens. On a misty or very hot day you can hear the lines crackeling, the noise is pretty loud too. Interesting.

[Anonymous]

I recomend The Shaker Rapid or MARC Trains from DC to Martinsburg PA as being healthy runs because of Low Impact. The MARC Trains are more like Long Distance Passenger Trains then like Subway style New Haven Metro North Trains.

[Overmod]

Let me take a stab at paraphrasing his points in English, or as close to that language as I can manage...

1) Exercise is good -- 15 minutes of walking being sufficient for health, and some running providing still more benefits.

2) When primates (e.g. monkeys) can interact socially in sufficient numbers, they may live longer (and have better health, show better behaviors, etc.) There are studies on other mammals (rats specifically coming to mind) that may show similar effects. (Note that an absence of stress or forced crowding is also important -- which would seem to indicate that *certain* kinds of commuter-rail experience are decidedly NOT good for health and longevity...)

3) John Cheever stories, perhaps? Certainly if someone's in the mood to pick up a 'sex partner', the train provides a richer and more diverse pool than the office, local bar, strip club et al...

The original "point" of the post, which is that "riding commuter rail" has benefits to health that may offset any harmful risks due to low-frequency EM fields, is reasonable. A little out of left field, perhaps, but not implausibly so.

[ajmiller]

I can't decide what exactly this means.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Clevelandrocks

The aspects of socailization with other commuter evedenced in studies were primates did other things in a group of other primates led to longer life spans.

Someone interpret, or draw a graph maybe.

QUOTE: And last but not least there is evidence that humans who use commuter train have a happy sex life due to a increase in the variety and number of partners.

Is there a study on this, or are you speaking from personal experience? Of course this kind of lifestyle may wind up shortening one's life as well.

[Anonymous]

Personaly I think that there are mitgating factors to riding commuter rail and any form of public transit to any loss of days off your life due to cancer caused by electric current. One is walking to the commuter or light rail stop and running to work when the train is late. The aspects of socailization with other commuter evedenced in studies were primates did other things in a group of other primates led to longer life spans. And last but not least there is evidence that humans who use commuter train have a happy sex life due to a increase in the variety and number of partners.

[AlcoRS11Nut]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arnstg

Sure hope you don't stand too close to your cellphone. Those microwaves will kill you!

Yeah, Right!

If that's true...I must be a 160 lb walking/talking tumor.

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

This is one of those threads doomed to go off topic...heh heh...

...that Welsh railway station name...does anyone know the Engli***ranslation?

Dave

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch translates to

Saint Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazal near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.

see http://llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/

I just learned that there's a place in Thailand called Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnop- paratrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathit- sakkattiyavisanukamprasit.

Which roughly translates to:

The final resting place of American commuters that died of catenary induced cancer...

could be, or maybe:
The final resting place of American commuters that died of catenary induced cancer by way of pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

I don't really know. I tried to google the Thai place and I got:

"Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnop-paratrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathit-sakkattiyavisanukamprasit"... is too long a word. Try using a shorter word.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

This is one of those threads doomed to go off topic...heh heh...

...that Welsh railway station name...does anyone know the Engli***ranslation?

Dave

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch translates to

Saint Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazal near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.

see http://llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/

I just learned that there's a place in Thailand called Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnop- paratrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathit- sakkattiyavisanukamprasit.

I'm glad I was born in Delta. [:D]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

This is one of those threads doomed to go off topic...heh heh...

...that Welsh railway station name...does anyone know the Engli***ranslation?

Dave

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch translates to

Saint Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazal near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.

see http://llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/

I just learned that there's a place in Thailand called Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnop- paratrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathit- sakkattiyavisanukamprasit.

Which roughly translates to:

The final resting place of American commuters that died of catenary induced cancer...

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

This is one of those threads doomed to go off topic...heh heh...

...that Welsh railway station name...does anyone know the Engli***ranslation?

Dave

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch translates to

Saint Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazal near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.

see http://llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/

I just learned that there's a place in Thailand called Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnop- paratrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathit- sakkattiyavisanukamprasit.

[espeefoamer]

If riding electric trains under 11,000v or 25,000v causes cancer,what about light rail under 600v DC. If riding light rail causes cancer,I'm dead meat[xx(].

[Kozzie]

This is one of those threads doomed to go off topic...heh heh...

...that Welsh railway station name...does anyone know the Engli***ranslation?

Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by chessking

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

Will Riding Electric Trains cause cancer?

Just the same as riding diesel locomotives will give you iron lung.

Or the old steam locos giving you mesothelioma because of the asbestos or pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis because of the coal. Riding electric trains decades ago could probably increase your likelihood of developing cancer, but that's only because everyone, their brother & sister were "smoking cigarettes" and it was OK to do so in coach or any other section on the train.

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

I typed this in to MS Word, and it changed the spelling to
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis

see also
http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/p/pneumono.html

chessking, do you come from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch ?

I had a friend back in high school that tried to work this word into a conversation just about everyday, it was pretty neat the first time, but after a while he just got annoying. [:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

QUOTE: Originally posted by chessking



Or the old steam locos giving you mesothelioma because of the asbestos or pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis because of the coal.

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

I typed this in to MS Word, and it changed the spelling to
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis

Chessking, using this word in context is amazing. Have you tried out for Jeopardy?

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chessking

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

Will Riding Electric Trains cause cancer?

Just the same as riding diesel locomotives will give you iron lung.

Or the old steam locos giving you mesothelioma because of the asbestos or pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis because of the coal. Riding electric trains decades ago could probably increase your likelihood of developing cancer, but that's only because everyone, their brother & sister were "smoking cigarettes" and it was OK to do so in coach or any other section on the train.

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

I typed this in to MS Word, and it changed the spelling to
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis

see also
http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/p/pneumono.html

chessking, do you come from Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch ?

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mvlandsw

How about from riding those AC units with much higher currents and field strength?

Actually the currents are much lower than the dc engines. The DC engines traction motor cables are 500 mcm or about the size of a half dollar. The AC locomotives have cables about the diameter of a dime.
I was told that eating electric trains may cause cancer!
Randy