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What Every Model Railroader Knows

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Monday, June 6, 2016 1:48 PM
In my commo daze of national guard ca. 1980's.... I spliced much of that twisted pair. It had steel conductors (strength) amongst the strands of flexible copper (conductivity) wire that was black coated then the those two were a twisted pair for lay out from a spool for telephone usage. Where as the Copperweld was solid steel w/copper coating. Noteworthy appearance of green, but also noteworthy ...... pick up a piece and try bending it. Hey, this ain't solid copper! Stiff, steel! endmrw0607161346
The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 6, 2016 7:19 AM

erikem
Copperweld was for installations where mechanical strength was more important than conductivity. At sufficiently high frequencies, the skin depth of copper will be less than the copper layer on Copperweld, and it will effectively hav the same conductance as an equivalent diameter of copper wire.

Here is a PDF reference for Copperweld

that shows some of the variants.

Note in particular the value of Copperweld as the messenger wire in a catenary system.  The flashing also acts as good corrosion protection when not damaged or removed during installation or maintenance.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 6, 2016 7:06 AM

I think the traditional black insulation, twisted pair Armed Services field wire has Copperweld conductors.

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Posted by erikem on Sunday, June 5, 2016 11:01 PM

I bought some of the stuff back in the mid-1970's - ISTR getting it from Radio Shack. I also seem to recall that the stuff was available in the 1930's if not before.

As mentioned by other posters, Copperweld was for installations where mechanical strength was more important than conductivity. At sufficiently high frequencies, the skin depth of copper will be less than the copper layer on Copperweld, and it will effectively hav the same conductance as an equivalent diameter of copper wire.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, June 5, 2016 8:26 AM

That's interesting, I've never heard of "COPPERWELD."  It would explain why they never took down those wires, although I'd have thought even scrap steel would be worth something.  Maybe a number-cruncher figured it would cost more to remove it and sell it than it was worth.

Not surprised that the high frequencies would travel on the outer layer of the wire.  I remember reading years ago that high-tension cables for electrical distribution were hollow, research having shown the "juice" traveled on the outside layer of the cable so there was no point in making them solid.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, June 4, 2016 7:18 PM

A lot of those wires were "COPPERWELD" which were steel with a coating of copper. Theye were stronger and better for carrier (high frenquncy signals applied over he lower audio uses) systems as the high frquencies travelled on the outer surface of the wire. Pennsylvania RR found that the trainfone worked better with it. Their scrap value is minimal unlike copper.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, June 4, 2016 11:25 AM

Back in the 90's I rode a C&O 614-New Jersey Transit excursion from Hoboken NJ to Port Jervis NY.  Part of the run was along the old Erie Graham Line and there were miles of the old copper communications lines still in place.  I was surprised it was still there, assuming modern communication technology had taken its place.  Metro-North (who owns that line now) could have made a ton of money selling that copper.  Maybe they have by now, I wouldn't know, haven't been up that way in years.

I don't recall seeing any of that copper wire along the old Erie Main Line part of the trip.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 4, 2016 6:50 AM

That green patina can be seen on catenary, too.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 3, 2016 7:27 PM

Firelock76
You don't see them too much anymore, if at all, but when I was a boy those aforementioned communication wires were very much in evidence.  I used to see them all the time along the Erie tracks and never forget that special shade of green.

Wire theives stole a lot of copper comm wire, the rest have been replaced by todays electronic communications gear.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, June 3, 2016 6:22 PM

samfp1943
 
Firelock76

Jeez, when I was a kid running my Lionels I knew you had to put the heavy cars up at the front of the train and the lighter ones toward the rear.  I didn't know the word "stringlining" but I sure understood the concept.

Now I'm 62 and running Lionels, MTH's Williams, K-Lines, and RMT's and I STILL put the heavy cars up front.  It worked then, it works now.

 

 

 

 

 

This was an early bit of knowledge, gained at a tender age, when I was running my American Flyer layouts...Derailment were always in the worst possible parts of the layouts...The other bit of knowledge came at a friends house, he had a large Lionel layout; It was a peice of knowledge that was presented to several of us, rather spectacularly...NEVER, EVER use a light gauge copper wire to simulate telegraph wires between a number of Lionel buildings...The Flash was a terrifying display, and the explanations of why a number of household fuses were blown, almost equally,painful.. Crying

 

Sam, and anyone else for that matter, if you want to simulate telegraph wires use green thread or green monofilament fishing line.  Ever see real telegraph wires along train tracks?  They're not copper colored, they're green.

You don't see them too much anymore, if at all, but when I was a boy those aforementioned communication wires were very much in evidence.  I used to see them all the time along the Erie tracks and never forget that special shade of green.

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, June 3, 2016 11:20 AM

BaltACD

With the size trains that are being run these days - train make-up is critical.  Long empties and/or high center of gravity empties wit 'excessive' trailing tonnage are very suseptable to 'stringlining' on tight curves.

This is not the first of this type derailment and not the last.

 

Yes Add "Long car/ Short car", buffing forces and slack action to that list. (Wish I had a dime for every time, during design review, I dumped half the nations red ink supply all over one of those so called model railroad expert's plansets..MischiefMischiefMischief )

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by seppburgh2 on Thursday, June 2, 2016 10:43 PM

A true Adams Family moment?

 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, June 2, 2016 10:09 PM

Firelock76

Jeez, when I was a kid running my Lionels I knew you had to put the heavy cars up at the front of the train and the lighter ones toward the rear.  I didn't know the word "stringlining" but I sure understood the concept.

Now I'm 62 and running Lionels, MTH's Williams, K-Lines, and RMT's and I STILL put the heavy cars up front.  It worked then, it works now.

 

 

This was an early bit of knowledge, gained at a tender age, when I was running my American Flyer layouts...Derailment were always in the worst possible parts of the layouts...The other bit of knowledge came at a friends house, he had a large Lionel layout; It was a peice of knowledge that was presented to several of us, rather spectacularly...NEVER, EVER use a light gauge copper wire to simulate telegraph wires between a number of Lionel buildings...The Flash was a terrifying display, and the explanations of why a number of household fuses were blown, almost equally,painful.. Crying

 

 


 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, June 2, 2016 6:55 PM

Jeez, when I was a kid running my Lionels I knew you had to put the heavy cars up at the front of the train and the lighter ones toward the rear.  I didn't know the word "stringlining" but I sure understood the concept.

Now I'm 62 and running Lionels, MTH's Williams, K-Lines, and RMT's and I STILL put the heavy cars up front.  It worked then, it works now.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 8:56 PM

With the size trains that are being run these days - train make-up is critical.  Long empties and/or high center of gravity empties wit 'excessive' trailing tonnage are very suseptable to 'stringlining' on tight curves.

This is not the first of this type derailment and not the last.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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What Every Model Railroader Knows
Posted by seppburgh2 on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 8:50 PM

NS train derails along a sharp curve in the track near the Harrisburgh, PA, Amtrak station downtown, Tuesday May 31.  From the pictures on the local news site(see link), NS has learned what every model railroader knows, running very long box cars around sharp (18 inch radius?)tend to fall over in a row. And that's with KaDee couplers to boot! 

The details "The train was running a regular route westbound from a rail yard in Enola to Hagerstown, Maryland"; 9 cars were damaged and not re-railable.  Expectation is to re-open on Wednesday. Amtrack's Pennsylvanian impacted, but not the KeyStone service.

Seems this location is a prefect place for an Atlas Snap Track re-railer. They always work for me!  Enjoy folks.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/05/harrisburg_train_derailment_no.html#incart_2box

 

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