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May issue, Map o' the Month

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May issue, Map o' the Month
Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 23, 2016 2:10 PM

I really enjoyed the detailed look at Ontario lines, past and present. As I recall, Wabash at one time showed a route through Ontario as part of their system. Trackage rights on the Michigan Central, I believe?

Has Trains magazine ever done a feature story on the Wabash operations through Ontario? (traffic, interchange points, crew terminals,  any "locals", stuff like that). If so, which back issue? Or if not then may I suggest this for one of your "retro" pieces?

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, April 23, 2016 2:51 PM

Maybe this one ?  Before I was born, and I don't have it in my collection, so I have no idea:

"Wabash - traffic, operations, engineering, locomotives of the Wabash" by Akin, W. A. Jr., Morgan, David P., from Trains, July 1950, pg. 12           [Magazine Index 'keywords': roster systemstory WAB ]

I didn't see any others in the results from my search that were even remotely close.

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by cx500 on Saturday, April 23, 2016 3:11 PM

The Wabash (and then N&W) used trackage rights on the CN line from Buffalo/Fort Erie to Windsor, with a crew change point on the north side of St. Thomas.  They had a fleet of Canadian built GMDs, mostly F7As, assigned to the territory.  I don't know if they ever had any of their own facilities or just depended on the landlord for shops, etc.

The Pere Marquette/C&O used trackage rights on the Michigan Central (CASO/NYC/PC/CR) between Fort Erie and St Thomas, and their own tracks west of there to Sarnia.   They had a shop facility in St Thomas with largish roundhouse and small backshop, not far from the still extant MC shops.

John

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, April 23, 2016 4:28 PM

Thanks to both of you, anyone else feel free to add on. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, April 23, 2016 7:57 PM

The Wabash's connection with CN across the Detroit river was the Lansdowne steam car ferry up into the 1970s.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Saturday, April 23, 2016 8:31 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

Maybe this one ?  Before I was born, and I don't have it in my collection, so I have no idea:

"Wabash - traffic, operations, engineering, locomotives of the Wabash" by Akin, W. A. Jr., Morgan, David P., from Trains, July 1950, pg. 12           [Magazine Index 'keywords': roster systemstory WAB ]

I didn't see any others in the results from my search that were even remotely close.

- Paul North.

 

I have the July 1950 edition in my collection.  Pages 12 through 26 inclusive is the Wabash article, general overview of the railroad and mention of operations in Canada is sparse.  Very little is mention as to the details requested by Convicted One.

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 25, 2016 10:06 AM

Well then, I guess it's "settled"?  The magazine needs to feature such a story while there are sufficient former employees still alive who can answer the questions that need to be asked.

 

Now, who'll help me start a flame war so we can be assured that magazine staff will actually read this thread? Doesn't seem like they follow much else that we do anymore. Angry

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 25, 2016 7:17 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
Wabash - traffic, operations, engineering, locomotives of the Wabash" by Akin, W. A. Jr., Morgan, David P., from Trains, July 1950, pg. 12

 

Read the article, fully enjoyed it. So it is the Wabash "Buffalo Division" that I am interested in. Almost exclusively through-traffic in Ontario. Very interesting terminal operations in Detroit.

Would enjoy additional details on all of that.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, April 25, 2016 8:45 PM

I wish Trains would do an article about all three of the US based rail lines (NYC, C&O, and Wabash) thru the southern Ontario peninsular.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, April 25, 2016 8:49 PM

MidlandMike

I wish Trains would do an article about all three of the US based rail lines (NYC, C&O, and Wabash) thru the southern Ontario peninsular.

Can't speak for Trains, but I'd suppose that if the idea was adopted today, it'd be a year before you actually saw an article...

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Posted by Convicted One on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 4:18 PM

tree68
t I'd suppose that if the idea was adopted today, it'd be a year before you actually saw an article...

We've been waiting 19 months for the twice promised "everything you ever wanted to know about railroad paint" article, and it was originally promised in a "coming in next month's issue" sidebar, yet remains a no-show.

I'd enjoy an article covering all three US carriers in Ontario, as well.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:42 PM

Try this one guys.   canadasouthern.com

This fellow has so much information that leads to other so much information and so on plus a wealth of pictures and links

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, July 14, 2016 5:30 PM

Okay, so I just did a little review in this book about the Wabash. 

Interesting that the main reason for the "Buffalo Division" was to tap into the New York/Chicago and New York/St Louis business enjoyed by the NYC and PRR, and cut out a slice for the Wabby.

Wabby had interchange agreements with Lehigh Valley and D,L,&W and as the Wabash 4th District across Northern Indiana came on line, opportunity knocked, and leasing the GT  line between Windsor and Suspension Bridge allowed the Wabash to take an even larger share of that business.

 

Not long after that, George Gould was pursuing the ill fated Pittsburgh Terminal. It makes me wonder if the link through Pittburgh (had it survived)would have ultimately superseded the Canadian route?

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Posted by Victrola1 on Friday, July 15, 2016 9:59 AM

How much U. S. orginated traffic through southern Ontario went onto Western Michigan and ferries crossing Lake Michigan? 

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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, July 15, 2016 1:12 PM

They mention the Ann Arbor ferrys in another chapter, but not in context with the line through Ontario.

They  just say that most of the freight handled through Ontario was Chicago/New York, St Louis/ New York  and 'both western cities'/Boston.

They also mention that prior to the lease with GT, the Wabash serviced its eastern connections with "steamer service" between Toledo and Buffalo.  That must have been cumbersome. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:04 AM

Reading deeper into the portion recapping the Ann Arbor, at the time the Wabash gained the Ann Arbor, twice as much freight over this line was eastbound, compared to westbound, and was anticipated to continue east of Toledo via the Pittsburgh extension.  The strategy the Wabash hoped to implement in attempt to balance this flow was west bound steel from Pittsburgh and finished autos from Detroit.

Not  sure how this played out in the future, as the book goes no further about traffic loads on the Ann Arbor, though it is mentioned that the ferrys across Lake Michigan typically cut three days off the time necessary to send the same load through Chicago.

 

Interesting that this is yet another example of the railroads seeking an alternative to routing through Chicago, from which the railroads ultimately gave up on.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, July 23, 2016 6:44 AM

One of the causes of the demise of the carferries was that freight trains got longer.  A 34-car ferry across Lake Michigan fit well with the railroading prior to WW2 but with dieselization and larger freight cars and trains the capacity of the ferries shrank and they couldn't really handle a trainload across the lake.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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