Trains.com

A line in the sand.

2888 views
15 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Friday, April 22, 2016 9:14 AM

Buslist
This Ballet occurs hourly at the street just west of my local METRA station. As the outbound train approaches the gates go down. As the train makes its station stop the gates go up. When the train resumes moving the gates go back down. I would dare say this senario is repeated hundreds of time each day in METRA land.

It definitely does and on all the eleven lines where Metra operates.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, April 22, 2016 7:11 AM

Grade crossing signals on the IC South Chicago Branch which are adjacent to and just past a station stop are set up to activate when a suburban train moves a few feet out of the station.  Special instructions in the ETT govern the procedure for departing the station in those locations.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, April 22, 2016 6:58 AM

sandiego
And no, you don't back up and take slack when starting. Good way to get a knuckle.

It was common practice in the days of "friction" bearings - and necessary.  

The rules generally require that the crossing protection be activated for ~20 seconds before the train enters the crossing, so the engineer will be creeping forward until that occurs.  

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, April 22, 2016 3:39 AM

Buslist

 

 
Murphy Siding

 

 
oltmannd

I've seen CSX trains do the same thing here.  The crossing circuits not only know the train is one the circuit but also know how fast the train is moving.  When the train stops close to the crossing, after a time delay, the crossing protection will turn off.  As soon as the train starts moving again, it will activate.

 

 

 

 Under that arrangement, the train would stop and then after a bit the lights would shut off? (Meanwhile the traffic whizzes on by.)

      As soon as the train starts moving, the lights come on?  In the case of the train I saw, it doesn't seem like that would give a lot of time before the train was in the intersection.  However, since it was a loaded grain train, I imagine the locomotives would back up a bit, in order to take out slack before moving the train forward, thus starting the lights in motion?

 

 

 

 

This Ballet occurs hourly at the street just west of my local METRA station. As the outbound train approaches the gates go down. As the train makes its station stop the gates go up. When the train resumes moving the gates go back down. I would dare say this senario is repeated hundreds of time each day in METRA land.

 

TRAXX (Salt Lake CIty and south) keeps the gates down while a train is stopped at a station--and most stations are right at the street crossing,

Johnny

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 112 posts
Posted by sandiego on Friday, April 22, 2016 12:37 AM

100 feet from the crossing is more than enough distance to activate the crossing protection for a train starting out. It only takes a few feet for the system to detect movement.

And no, you don't back up and take slack when starting. Good way to get a knuckle.

Best to start a train with the slack stretched. I started plenty of trains when I was running and if you couldn't get a train going when the slack was out you had some sort of problem that taking slack probably wouldn't solve.

 

Kurt Hayek

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 1,097 posts
Posted by Buslist on Friday, April 22, 2016 12:35 AM

Murphy Siding

 

 
oltmannd

I've seen CSX trains do the same thing here.  The crossing circuits not only know the train is one the circuit but also know how fast the train is moving.  When the train stops close to the crossing, after a time delay, the crossing protection will turn off.  As soon as the train starts moving again, it will activate.

 

 

 

 Under that arrangement, the train would stop and then after a bit the lights would shut off? (Meanwhile the traffic whizzes on by.)

      As soon as the train starts moving, the lights come on?  In the case of the train I saw, it doesn't seem like that would give a lot of time before the train was in the intersection.  However, since it was a loaded grain train, I imagine the locomotives would back up a bit, in order to take out slack before moving the train forward, thus starting the lights in motion?

 

 

This Ballet occurs hourly at the street just west of my local METRA station. As the outbound train approaches the gates go down. As the train makes its station stop the gates go up. When the train resumes moving the gates go back down. I would dare say this senario is repeated hundreds of time each day in METRA land.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:39 PM

oltmannd

I've seen CSX trains do the same thing here.  The crossing circuits not only know the train is one the circuit but also know how fast the train is moving.  When the train stops close to the crossing, after a time delay, the crossing protection will turn off.  As soon as the train starts moving again, it will activate.

 

 Under that arrangement, the train would stop and then after a bit the lights would shut off? (Meanwhile the traffic whizzes on by.)

      As soon as the train starts moving, the lights come on?  In the case of the train I saw, it doesn't seem like that would give a lot of time before the train was in the intersection.  However, since it was a loaded grain train, I imagine the locomotives would back up a bit, in order to take out slack before moving the train forward, thus starting the lights in motion?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:33 PM

tree68

 

 
Dakguy201
...it gave me a major start, ...

 

Been there....

 

 Ditto.  Train in question was somewhat hidden by a treeline.  I happened to glance to the left and Surprise!  There it was.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: NW Pa Snow-belt.
  • 2,216 posts
Posted by ricktrains4824 on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 6:52 PM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
Dakguy201
However, it gave me a major start,

 

Oh yes. In Lombard as CShave knows, when necessary, UP will hold trains out of Proviso just West of Finley Rd. One night, I turned onto Finley from Crescent to cross the UP and as I was just starting across, the engineer of the parked train having been cleared to proceed Eastward turned his headlight on. He was about two car lengths west of the crossing and I had not seen him in the dark. Lit the car up as if I was in a ballpark. Thought I was going to die until I realized what was happening. Fortunately, the wife didn't need to pay special attention to my underpants. But it was sure a big adrenalin rush.

As far as the protection, the crossing audio overlay circuits use the dopler principle to detect motion and will activate the crossings when they do after timing out after a defined interval of no detection of motion. 

 

Back when Conrail was still around, their former NYC Chicago line, Cleveland-Buffalo segment, they would "stage" trains east of Erie, Pa, near a road crossing. Once, while on that road, the crossing lights and gates were active, but shut off on my approaching them. 

I was immensely surprised to find a stopped train not 10 feet off the road!

Man, those things are big that close! (Can't remember what type of train, but it was a GE 8-40CW leader.)

As mentioned, the systems can detect not only the presence of a train, but the direction of travel, and speed (or lack there of) and adjust accordingly.

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:01 PM
  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 3:50 PM

Dakguy201
However, it gave me a major start,

Oh yes. In Lombard as CShave knows, when necessary, UP will hold trains out of Proviso just West of Finley Rd. One night, I turned onto Finley from Crescent to cross the UP and as I was just starting across, the engineer of the parked train having been cleared to proceed Eastward turned his headlight on. He was about two car lengths west of the crossing and I had not seen him in the dark. Lit the car up as if I was in a ballpark. Thought I was going to die until I realized what was happening. Fortunately, the wife didn't need to pay special attention to my underpants. But it was sure a big adrenalin rush.

As far as the protection, the crossing audio overlay circuits use the dopler principle to detect motion and will activate the crossings when they do after timing out after a defined interval of no detection of motion. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 12:51 PM

Dakguy201
...it gave me a major start, ...

Been there....

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:29 AM

Either times out with the PMD motion detector or times out in the gate circuit usually. You would have to know what logic system is in use and what the track circuits are. There are a good dozen methods in common use these days. Only the railroad signal department and the FRA know for sure which one it is.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: South Dakota
  • 1,592 posts
Posted by Dakguy201 on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 9:14 AM

There is a semi-rural crossing near me protected by flashing lights.  If you are approaching it from the south, the rail approach from the west is screened by an overgrown hedge row. As there is a primary highway paralleling the rail, you approach the crossing preparing to stop at the road junction.

Once as I was crossing the rails, I looked to the west and there was a BNSF engine sitting perhaps 150 feet away from  the crossing.  As it wasn't moving, the crossing lights weren't active.  However, it gave me a major start, and it reminded me that I had grown too reliant on the crossing light system to assure my safety.  

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 7:30 AM

I've seen CSX trains do the same thing here.  The crossing circuits not only know the train is one the circuit but also know how fast the train is moving.  When the train stops close to the crossing, after a time delay, the crossing protection will turn off.  As soon as the train starts moving again, it will activate.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
A line in the sand.
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 7:25 AM

    Last night I saw a BNSF grainer parked only about 100 feet from a crossing.  Had this been a moving train, the crossing lights would have started before the train got within a couple hundred feet of this particular crossing.  Does the dispatcher deactivate the crossing lights from a distant office, or does the conductor- or some local ground crew- do that manually after the lights have started flashing?  How hard is it to stop a 100+ loaded grain train at the right spot in relation to the crossing?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy