I think part of the Hicksville project is to prepare for 9.8 miles of new main line track.
http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/LIRR_Expansion_Project_Scoping_Document.pdf
Excerpt from MTA press release
Hicksville modernization is really two projects in one, the complete rehabilitation of the 55 year-old station at a cost of $68.8 million and construction of the Hicksville North Track Siding at the west end the station at a cost of $52.4 million. The North Track Siding will be built by the LIRR’s workforce. Railroad Construction Company/Citnalta will handle the station renovation and prepare the North Track Siding site.
The station upgrades include new platforms with glass-enclosed, heated waiting rooms, lighting, translucent canopy roof, stairways, escalators, plaza elevators, a video security system, audio and digital communications systems and signage. MTA Arts & Design plans artist designed ceramic mosaic murals and laminated art glass. If construction begins this summer, the station work should be done by spring 2018.
The North Siding will connect Track 1 at Hicksville to an existing track siding situated about one-half mile west of the station platform. The siding will improve the Railroad's ability to reroute trains in the event of maintenance, construction or service disruptions.
In today's News on this site, one reads that Hicksville on the LI RR will receive a $120 million "modernization."
There was a considerable amount of scoffing and outrage here in mid-April over Schnectady and Albany station costs. How about over Hicksville?
CandOforprogress2Here is what you get in South Carolina for 6 Million in a right to work state-
Actually, they've lined up $7.5 million, which represents 85% of the total cost.
That's still pretty good for the project they seem to have come up with.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BTW I am pro-union but dont like the crony capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism that union states breed like IL (Super Subway Station that was never finished) and NY State (Subway Stations that cost billions of dollers) More on Chicago Super Station <script type="text/javascript" charset="UTF-8" src="http://www.nbcchicago.com/portableplayer/?cmsID=293779571&videoID=pqJ1scS4a93E&origin=nbcchicago.com&sec=investigations&subsec=&width=600&height=360"></script>
Here is what you get in South Carolina for 6 Million in a right to work state-
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20101005/PC1602/310059935
Paul_D_North_JrReading that article, the one bid may have been the contractor's version of a lottery ticket: "Let's bid real high so that if no one else bids and we do get it, we make a lot of money."
Reminds me of a method the Italians supposedly used for weeding out bids - throw out the highest, as that contractor is clearly looking for a gravy train. Throw out the lowest because that one clearly left something out, then average the rest and pick the one in the middle...
Tends to be 'gold-plated' too, in my experience. Sometimes really nice, sometimes an extravagance. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
- Paul North.
Paul North- Now it makes sence. Look here I lobbied myself to Metroplex and Schenctady City Council on this that if you are going to redo downtown and have people move here you need a train station that you can feel safe dropping your daughter off to college to. It took 10 years. rail progress is snails pace and we may be in heaven by the time anything gets done.
Now here's the part from the article linked in the Original Post that I find depressing:
"The new station would replace a 1970s-era station that many visitors find dingy and uninspiring.
The design of the new station was inspired by the architecture of the former Union Station, which was built in 1910, in a far grander style than the current station. Union Station was demolished to make way for the current station.
If the project goes forward, work is expected to take at least 18 months. A temporary station would be built, followed by demolition of the old station and then construction of the new facility."
Count 'em - how many stations ?
Reading that article, the one bid may have been the contractor's version of a lottery ticket: "Let's bid real high so that if no one else bids and we do get it, we make a lot of money."
There must have been invitations or other contacts to qualified contractors in the area, plus the required published notices, and a pre-bid meeting. That no one else bid is a sure sign of something wrong. As a post above noted, perhaps the owner or architect has such a bad reputation - or the contract terms were so one-sided and onerous - that all the qualified contractors decided not to bother with it.
A detailed analysis of the prices for each of the major items would be informative, too. What was the Pentagon buying a few decades ago - $700 toilet seats and $600 hammers ? Any savvy bidder knows to find an item with a small estimated quantity that is expected to increase greatly, and to put in a high price per unit on it - at extremes, an "unbalanced bid". It won't boost the total amount at the bidding stage because of the small quantity - but at the payment stage, when the actual quantities are much larger, it sure will.
ROBERT WILLISON The city of buffola has done a great job redeveloping its lake front. Its time to come up with a creative solution for buffola central station. If not the city will lose another significant building. Being short sited resulted in the loss of NYC Penn station, Cleveland UNION terminal, st louis union station and a host of other of the great station's. It time to make it a reality.
The city of buffola has done a great job redeveloping its lake front. Its time to come up with a creative solution for buffola central station. If not the city will lose another significant building. Being short sited resulted in the loss of NYC Penn station, Cleveland UNION terminal, st louis union station and a host of other of the great station's. It time to make it a reality.
Where is this city of buffola, of which you speak?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There was only one bidder for the project. In Albany NY which in a Metro area of 1.1 million means that there must be full employment and every contractor is going full blast and cant be bothered with a 15,000,000 train station. Time to open the bids for outta state contractors.
see-As of the 2010 census,[171] there were 97,856 people residing in the city.[171] The population of the census area in 2009 was estimated to be 1,170,483.[3][179]
Also, by definition station construction is right next to active - and sometimes very busy - tracks. That can cause delays to work next to the tracks, added costs for flagmen & waiting time for trains to pass, added protective measures such as fences, shields, shoring next to the tracks, scaffolding, etc., more difficulty in getting materials and equipment across or next to the tracks, etc.
All of that should have been set forth in the bid documents and contracts - but maybe the owner/ architect didn't know; or did know, but decided to absorb & pay the actual costs rather than force the contractor to add an unknown contingency $ amount, which may or may not actually be needed (contractor usually keeps it if not); or the railroad's operating patterns changed, etc.
Bottom line (quite literally): A detailed examination/ investigation of the history and facts is needed to figure out what went wrong and who's responsible. With an over-run that large, I'm sure that will happen - either through construction claims litigation, or an auditor/ comptroller investigation, etc.
Hubby and I are paranoid when it comes to any construction that goes on at our house. Why we live in the most undermined city in the State of IL. 99.9% of this city is supported by room and pillars coal mines from over 100 years ago. Now the fun part. Those mines for years where used as the city sewer until the 80's and then the EPA forced a true sewage treatment system on the city. It is nothing to have 3-4 mine collaspes in this town a year.
When it came time to insure the house he first required Mine subsistance and then eartquake. The agent looked at him and said why the second. He said we are in the New Madrid Fault area I am not going to go thru that sucker going off having my house Collaspe or the mine fail and you guys go sorry not covered. He thinks a little to far ahead for me sometimes.
Paul_D_North_Jr Another big factor is unknown subsurface conditions - anything from voids in limestone rock, higher and harder layers of rock, high groundwater, soft clays or sand, etc.; and there's man-made things like left-over foundations from former buildings, old tracks, contaminated former building materials (lead and asbestos), contaminated ground or groundwater, buried drums, unknown utility lines, etc. Once the building is 'out of the ground', the rest of the construction process - and its costs - should be pretty predictable. - Paul North.
Another big factor is unknown subsurface conditions - anything from voids in limestone rock, higher and harder layers of rock, high groundwater, soft clays or sand, etc.; and there's man-made things like left-over foundations from former buildings, old tracks, contaminated former building materials (lead and asbestos), contaminated ground or groundwater, buried drums, unknown utility lines, etc.
Once the building is 'out of the ground', the rest of the construction process - and its costs - should be pretty predictable.
Very true. I was once involved with a warehouse construction just outside Memphis, on a spot which was already cleared and relatively level. Piece of cake, right? WRONG! The site was near a sizable complex of buildings which was built 25+ years earlier, and of course none of the people working there had been there when the complex was built.
The six feet or so down from the ground surface was a very nasty plastic clay. The site was in the New Madrid Fault potential earthquake zone, so the clay had to go. Large $ contract modification. When the unsuitable material was removed, the contractor found all the construction trash and debris from construction of the nearby complex. Another large $ contract modification. When removing the construction debris, a considerable quantity of what was believed to be asbestos was discovered in the debris. This was the poor contracting officer's first construction contract of any size, and at this point she was about ready to lose her mind.
The stuff discovered in the debris turned out to not be asbestos, so that particular agony didn't happen. After suitable fill material was brought in to fill in the giant hole left by removing the unsuitable material and debris (another large $ contract modification), the project settled down and was more or less normal until completion. It was certainly a baptism of fire for the new contracting officer.
Here is the home you get for Ten Million Dollers-
http://www.houzz.com/ten-million-dollar-homes
https://www.google.com/search?q=Prince's+house+paisley+park&biw=1536&bih=789&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_w4LWwKDMAhUKQyYKHcHnCqsQ_AUICCgD&dpr=1.25#imgrc=lBGW5W9JsBjcpM%3A
CopCarSS Davis Bacon wage rates are available online at http://www.wdol.gov/. The rates vary quite a bit between counties and also based on the type of construction, so it's hard to say what the impact of the wage rates would be. Additionally, some government projects will have DBE (Disadvantaged Business Enterprise) requirements. These requirements could require that a certain percentage of the work will be performed by contractors/subcontractors that may fall into one of the DBE categories (WBE - Women-owned Business Enterprise, MBE - Minority Business Enterprise, etc). The percentage and the type of DBE requirement could have an affect on the bottom line. I don't know if that was in play for this project, but I've seen it affect projects in the past. Beyond that, the gross underestimation could be the result of several factors. One of the largest that I'm still seeing is budgeting based on construction rates during the height of the recession. There's a lot more work around right now, so construction rates are higher than they were in 2008.Another factor is that whoever set the budget didn't really look very closely at what was actually present in the plans. This happens a lot. I bid a commercial retail project about a year ago that had some really funky steel connections on it. Normally a retail space will be fairly straight-forward "box" construction for the steel industry and the owner/GC were expecting a price significantly below what I quoted. They were only basing their budget on a square footage price for standard commercial retail construction. When I explained the complex connections, it surprised them, but explained why it was happening. This led to a round of VE (Value Engineering) in which the engineer simplified the connections and we subsequently lowered the price.Finally, I'll bid some projects higher just because of the owner. There are a couple of government agencies out here that are complete nightmares to work for. Because of that, I estimate far higher than I would for other owners/general contractors. By virtue of the fact that there was only one bidder and that bidder was significantly higher than the project budget, I would tend to guess that whoever is footing the bill here might not be the easiest to work for.Just a few bits an pieces from a guy that gets to professionally guess all day long.
Davis Bacon wage rates are available online at http://www.wdol.gov/. The rates vary quite a bit between counties and also based on the type of construction, so it's hard to say what the impact of the wage rates would be. Additionally, some government projects will have DBE (Disadvantaged Business Enterprise) requirements. These requirements could require that a certain percentage of the work will be performed by contractors/subcontractors that may fall into one of the DBE categories (WBE - Women-owned Business Enterprise, MBE - Minority Business Enterprise, etc). The percentage and the type of DBE requirement could have an affect on the bottom line. I don't know if that was in play for this project, but I've seen it affect projects in the past.
Beyond that, the gross underestimation could be the result of several factors. One of the largest that I'm still seeing is budgeting based on construction rates during the height of the recession. There's a lot more work around right now, so construction rates are higher than they were in 2008.Another factor is that whoever set the budget didn't really look very closely at what was actually present in the plans. This happens a lot. I bid a commercial retail project about a year ago that had some really funky steel connections on it. Normally a retail space will be fairly straight-forward "box" construction for the steel industry and the owner/GC were expecting a price significantly below what I quoted. They were only basing their budget on a square footage price for standard commercial retail construction. When I explained the complex connections, it surprised them, but explained why it was happening. This led to a round of VE (Value Engineering) in which the engineer simplified the connections and we subsequently lowered the price.Finally, I'll bid some projects higher just because of the owner. There are a couple of government agencies out here that are complete nightmares to work for. Because of that, I estimate far higher than I would for other owners/general contractors. By virtue of the fact that there was only one bidder and that bidder was significantly higher than the project budget, I would tend to guess that whoever is footing the bill here might not be the easiest to work for.Just a few bits an pieces from a guy that gets to professionally guess all day long.
The Davis-Bacon building construction rates would apply to this project, since it's mostly or completely building construction. Everything else he says is exactly right.
The Technical Representative (engineer or technician in charge of technical questions/decisions) can also have a big effect on bid prices. I once worked with an engineer whose projects always cost about 10% more than those run by others, partly because he was so strict about compliance with the letter of the contract and partly because his personality was composed of equal parts rattlesnake venom, skunk juice and porcupine quills. The design engineers actually took this into account when estimating projects to be run by this engineer.
The promptness with which the owner pays the monthly progress payments can also be a factor in construction bids. Entities which are slow in making payments force their contractors to have more working capital with which to pay their subs and finance their own operations (usually borrowed money which carries interest charges).
NKP guy Now, as the Lake Shore Limited travels between these two modern passenger stations (SDY & ALB), will there still be only one track between them?
Now, as the Lake Shore Limited travels between these two modern passenger stations (SDY & ALB), will there still be only one track between them?
Excerpt from Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, Apr. 19
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2016/04/19/amtrak-reduces-upstate-service/83224628/
Amtrak normally runs four eastbound passenger trains and four westbound trains each day that connect Rochester with other upstate cities and provide connections to New York City, Chicago and beyond. As of Sunday, however, one train in each direction will be put on hiatus until mid-July.
The reduction in trains is in effect Sundays through Wednesdays. All four daily trains will run on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays.
Bruce Becker, president of the Empire State Passenger Association, which advocates for New York state rail passengers, said his group was disappointed with the arrangement…
The reason for the reductions and expected delays is major rehabilitation work planned for the two tracks that carry both passenger and freight trains across upstate New York. The tracks are owned by CSX Transportation, upstate’s dominant freight railroad...
There is some good news for upstate Amtrak riders, however — the railroad lay track this summer on a 17-mile-long stretch of right-of-way between Schenectady and Rensselaer.
The stretch now has just a single CSX-owned track that must be shared by freights and Amtrak trains. It’s considered Amtrak’s worst bottleneck in upstate New York and is responsible for many of the late arrivals in Rochester of westbound trains.
The new second track along that stretch, financed by federal grants and owned by Amtrak, should be in service by early next year at the latest, Becker said.
CopCarSS[snipped - PDN] . . .Just a few bits an pieces from a guy that gets to professionally guess all day long.
Back when I was doing mostly estimating of railroad track projects, the Atlantic City casinos opened (first ones east of Las Vegas). One foreman who was addicted to such things asked me "Are you going there ?". I thought for a moment, and then told Jesse: "Nahh, why bother ? I already get to gamble with millions of dollars of old man Yoder's money every day !"
PDN> Notice your mention of sales taxes. Down here a government agency can buy materials and not have to pay taxes. Of course it is much easier to buy substadard materials if gov buys. Speaking from bitter experience.
ROBERT WILLISON The city of buffola and amtrak needs to look at moving back into central terminal. A land mark building on the lines of Utica central and grand Central. It would not only serve Amtrak but could help with the cities revitalization.
The city of buffola and amtrak needs to look at moving back into central terminal. A land mark building on the lines of Utica central and grand Central. It would not only serve Amtrak but could help with the cities revitalization.
Here is what you get in Ohio for only 8 million 2 platforms and ped bridge with two elevators and no indoor waiting station-
http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2015/01/21/lorain-county-commissioners-weigh-9-million-amtrak-project/
Utica Union Station was built in 1914 to serve NYC, O&W, and Lackawanna.
Once NYC moved out the county eventually took it over. Several county offices are located there, in addition to intercity buses, Amtrak, and the Adirondack Scenic.
They Syracuse station, while new, is also intermodal. Sure beats the shack they were using on the east side of town.
From what I see out of my roomette window, New York is getting some very nice stations: Syracuse, Utica, Albany, and now the City that Hauls and Lights the World. Yes, you Knickerbockers are paying more, but you're getting more. It looks like New York believes that passenger trains will be around in the future; here in Ohio, we are all set for 1965. But our taxes are lower! Big Whoopee.
Buffalo, you gotta be next; New York City...maybe by 2100.
For those interested, plans and bid documents are available online:https://www.dot.ny.gov/doing-business/opportunities/const-contract-docs?p_d_id=D263006Just after a very, very quick perusal of the bid packet, I see DBE participation of 8.5%, a bid bond requirement of 25% (which is going to eliminate a lot of firms...that's a hefty bond requirement on a decent sized project. Typically we see 10% out here.), Buy-America provisions, Davis-Bacon wage rates, etc. If I were bidding this, I'd be thinking expensive right from the get-go.ADDENDUM: The specific wage decision for this particular project is in the Proposal Book 6 PDF file. I can't comment on how these relate to non Davis-Bacon projects because I don't know what labor goes for in New York.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
It's popular to bash prevailing wage projects and make claims about how much more expensive they are, but many of those claims lack detailed factual support. The 1/3 more expensive claim is incredible - as in not believable.
Prevailing wage projects are typically not more than 10% costlier than the same project at local non-union wage rates. The higher wage % are 'diluted' by everything else that has identical costs for both a 'rated job' and a non-union one, such as: materials, sales taxes, equipment rentals, overhead and profit for the contractor, permit fees, special services and items that are not subject to prevailing wages (ex.: truck drivers who only deliver to or pickup from the site). The added cost gets higher than that % only when there are little materials and equipment involved: painting is a good example.
Prevailing wages don't include the union contract rules regarding manning and other non-cash aspects, which sometimes gives non-union contractors a non-cash operating / productivity advantage. Also, sometimes the higher union-scale wages attract more qualified and efficient tradesmen than the lower-paid non-union wages do, to the extent that the higher productivity offsets the higher wages.
The only way to know the % for sure - if you're not a high-level employee of the contractor, or very familiar with the cost components - is to have at least 2 bids for the exact same scope, quantities, quality, schedule, and general conditions of the project - the old "apples to apples" cliche.
These comments are based on my 40+ years in the construction industry and experience with prevailing wage projects - both Federal and Pennsylvania - at many different levels, particularly as an estimator for railroad track construction, and project manager or similar in many other companies.
I have no particular favor for or against prevailing wages, but it's better that we know the facts than rely on bombastic claims.
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