Gosh! There's No Room for More Highways!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Illinois Tollways now have I-Pass. A transponder system that sets up a debit on a prepaid account. No need to stop for at a toll gate.

Not quite right, you still have to stop at the toll, wait for it to register, turn the light green and then you can go. it's still faster than having to pay a toll, but still requires you to slow down and stop. I like Hustons much better, you just go full speed through the specially marked ez-Pass lanes and you're set, as long as you have a valid account that is.

[Anonymous]

No more room for highways? Then how will we fulfill our manifest destiny (or is it manifest density?) to provide accommodations for every auto the manufacturers can sell?

[Junctionfan]

Yes the government announced the Union to Pearson but haven't heard much of it. I'm glad that they didn't abandon it; thanks for the good news.

The Maple Leaf which is of course the Amtrak Toronto to New York Penn, has been rumour to be on the chopping block. This poses a problem for train travellers who want to go to the U.S for whatever reason and don't want to get off at Niagara Falls, On or Windsor, On and Bus to Detroit or Buffalo just to get to the Amtrak station. It adds extra time, inconvienience particularly those with heavy or alot of baggage and adds to the extra costs. This is why people will take their cars or will just simply add the extra cash for a more efficient mode of transportation that they may not be in a rush for but want to use as little transportation modes as possible. When Amtrak got rid of the International, my concerns were just that. What about those who want to travel either to or from Canada to or from the U.S? The boarders are clogged enough with those who don't need the train for distance reasons and of course trucks; the customs agents on both sides are already working hard to try to eliviate the back ups at the boarder. Why not help them out a little and reduce their work load and get folk on the trains?

As far as security concerns, I am a firm believer and will comfortably advocate that we all register into an international security registry and have such tools as a retinal scan that can eliminate the need for passports as well as investigations. Scanning systems for luggage at the train depots isn't a bad idea either. A system where you imprint your finger on the ticket and a ticket handler on the train can confirm it with a thumbprint scanner (portable) isn't a bad idea either. All this said and done, this is a fine way to reduce the delays for custom checks on the trains therefore giving a more competitive advantage for using the train. To get across the boarder, all you have to do is look into the lense and go through a scanner-3 minutes and you're done and the boarder has been accurately protected. Even without the high tech scanner, bomb sniffing dogs can sniff out anything.

At any rate, I am not confident in Amtrak's ability to continue to offer domestic travel never mind international and so VIA is the only other rail service that can do this.

[Grinandbearit]

Hey Andrew,
Didn't the Provincial, Federal Governments announce a few billion dollars for everything from finishing the renovation of Union Station to new lines, more service, more trains and whatnot for the Toronto area. I am pretty sure that the service from Union to the airport is now on the drawing board and will be started very soon.
There was a train from Toronto to Chicago called The International till just recently when Amtrak cancelled it and I think the Toronto -New York is still running!

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

Last time I drove the NJ Turnpike I got tendenitis frrom pitching quarters...

Worst designed stretch of road I have had the opportunity to drive.

That would be the Parkway. The Turnpike has entry/exit toll system.

-Don
Formerly of exit Turnpike exit 3

[Junctionfan]

Toronto's biggest problem is lack of funds to enhance the GO trains and TTC Subways and to maintain under capacity. The demand is there but the systems have a service problem and so people will use their cars instead of "those damn inconvient" mass transit solutions. Therefore, the highways are getting more conjested and more conjested as time goes on. It is costing us more in my humble opinion, to increase capacity on highways than rail. Some of the lines of CP and CN could easily be increased; just a matter of paying CN and CP to add the line or lines for GO and for that matter VIA Rail.

The provincial government has announced that is will keep it's promise and increase GO train service into Mississauga and building new stations (they are in the process of aquiring the land) I would suggest that GO train line should be built to Pearson International Airport. Also the CP line that heads toward MacTier Yard in Scarborough may be ripe for GO service. Some suggested places for stations along that line would be near Dundas and Jane area, and some where in the Don Mills and Eglington area because of the world famous tourist place Ontario Science Centre. There might be other areas of interest too.

Outside of Toronto, GO needs to be extended to the tourist city of Niagara Falls. Either that, VIA needs to add more Niagara bound trains (at least 2 night trains), there also needs VIA trains that connect to the U.S. I would like to see VIA run at least 1 set of trains from Toronto to Chicago and Toronto to New York.

If you provide a better alternative to road using vehicles, increase highway capacity will not be an issue or at least be a frequent one.

[jeaton]

BaltACD

Illinois Tollways now have I-Pass. A transponder system that sets up a debit on a prepaid account. No need to stop for at a toll gate. Love that when a BMW doing 90 crosses over three lanes to pass the rest of us doing 70 in the 55 MPH zone, and then gets into the short line of 20 cars and 5 -18 wheelers to pay cash at the gate.

Also saves aggrevation on the left rotator cuff problem.

Jay

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

What a mess, there obviously needs to be something done other than just widening the highway system, they widen it now and it's just going to be backlogged again a few years after the construction is done.

As stated above "Build it and they will come."

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT

[BaltACD]

Last time I drove the NJ Turnpike I got tendenitis frrom pitching quarters...

Worst designed stretch of road I have had the opportunity to drive.

[Anonymous]

What a mess, there obviously needs to be something done other than just widening the highway system, they widen it now and it's just going to be backlogged again a few years after the construction is done.

As stated above "Build it and they will come."

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

When Highway 401 was built through the Toronto Metro area, it consisted of 3 "express" lanes in each direction, as well as 3 "collector" lanes, for a total of 12. Those three express lanes have been made 4 thru the magic of repainting lane markings, and traffic still moves through there at warp speed, essentially bumper to bumper. The collector lanes aren't much better (I'm never in them, though). I don't know if the collector lanes have been increased to 4 or not. If they have, that makes 16 lanes...

If you build it, they will come!

Toronto highways in general, are a pain. Ever since the 407 was privatized, all the other highways have been overly conjested.

[Overmod]

There's plenty of room for widening between 8A and 6 -- that area's largely suburban/rural. Opportunity cost of land (for Yet More Subdivisions) is the likely reason for the cost.

What this does is extend the separated truck lanes all the way to good access to I-95 (via I-195 IIRC). Right now the effective 'end' of the car/truck separation is "in the woods" at Hightstown, leaving some confusion southbound when all the traffic merges together.

Extending the lanes to me is a particularly good intent, as it provides a separation between heavy truck traffic and three lanes per direction of automobile traffic, up to the 'free' highway into the Philadelphia area and points south. (Of course, I always made better time in the truck lanes when there was congestion!) The alternative is to take the Turnpike down to where it bridges to the Pennsylvania Turnpike... more tolls... or if going further south to where you can cross the river on one of the (very crowded) bridges.

[jeaton]

Or on the other hand one can walk. (Sorry, I just had to do that.)

Such discussions are the reason I have decided that the easten states are a nice places to visit, but...

I did big city commuting for 25 years with about half of that time by car, so reading this topic makes me very happy to be old enough to just stay home if I want.

Hang in there guys.

Jay

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

If you look at a road map of the area, you'll notice that I-95 follows the NJ turnpike south from the New York City area, but in Philadelphia I-95 has a separate route. The two routes don't connect. I suspect the new interchange in Pennsylvania connects I-95 directly to the PA turnpike (I-276) so that trafic coming out of Philly in I-95 can get over to the part of I-95 on the NJ turnpike. The problem is that there are 3 major north-south controlled access highways (I-95, I-295, and NJ turnpike) in the Philadelphia area, but only one (I-95/NJ turnpike) between Philadelphia and New York. My understanding was that I-95 was originally to have a separate route from the turnpike, but that people in NJ north of the Trenton area fought it.

You are correct on I-95s proposed alignment. But, you can get from I-95 in PA to the NJTP at exit 7A by taking I-295 to I-195.

But I doubt that people driving from Philadelphia to New York do this because they have to drive all the way around Trenton. They probably just follow US-1 instead or get off I-95 in north Philly and follow city streets to I-276. A direct connection between 95 and 276 makes a lot of sense.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

If you look at a road map of the area, you'll notice that I-95 follows the NJ turnpike south from the New York City area, but in Philadelphia I-95 has a separate route. The two routes don't connect. I suspect the new interchange in Pennsylvania connects I-95 directly to the PA turnpike (I-276) so that trafic coming out of Philly in I-95 can get over to the part of I-95 on the NJ turnpike. The problem is that there are 3 major north-south controlled access highways (I-95, I-295, and NJ turnpike) in the Philadelphia area, but only one (I-95/NJ turnpike) between Philadelphia and New York. My understanding was that I-95 was originally to have a separate route from the turnpike, but that people in NJ north of the Trenton area fought it.

You are correct on I-95s proposed alignment. But, you can get from I-95 in PA to the NJTP at exit 7A by taking I-295 to I-195.

[ajmiller]

If you look at a road map of the area, you'll notice that I-95 follows the NJ turnpike south from the New York City area, but in Philadelphia I-95 has a separate route. The two routes don't connect. I suspect the new interchange in Pennsylvania connects I-95 directly to the PA turnpike (I-276) so that trafic coming out of Philly in I-95 can get over to the part of I-95 on the NJ turnpike. The problem is that there are 3 major north-south controlled access highways (I-95, I-295, and NJ turnpike) in the Philadelphia area, but only one (I-95/NJ turnpike) between Philadelphia and New York. My understanding was that I-95 was originally to have a separate route from the turnpike, but that people in NJ north of the Trenton area fought it.

[gabe]

It is not that there is no more room. Of course there can always be more room. The argument is, it gets progressively more expensive to add lanes/highways in a congested city and we have reached the knee of that curve in many cities.

Gabe

[tree68]

When Highway 401 was built through the Toronto Metro area, it consisted of 3 "express" lanes in each direction, as well as 3 "collector" lanes, for a total of 12. Those three express lanes have been made 4 thru the magic of repainting lane markings, and traffic still moves through there at warp speed, essentially bumper to bumper. The collector lanes aren't much better (I'm never in them, though). I don't know if the collector lanes have been increased to 4 or not. If they have, that makes 16 lanes...

If you build it, they will come!

[Junctionfan]

I have heard of this highway before. The only way they are going to make this thing bigger is if they do what they did in San Fransisco and have the sections stacked. Have the Eastbound lanes on one tier and the Westbound lanes on another. Not too sure about tunneling though.

[rrnut282]

Don't ya just love it when politicians ignore the lack of money and promise something, even when something else has been in the planning stages for years? All the grant proposals, environmental impact studies, preliminary designs, etc, gone to waste.

[Anonymous]

Heh.

Since 1988 I have watched that Turnpike go from just two sets of lanes in either direction all the way almost to Exit 12. Changed slowly and with great effort become a 6 laned per side monster extending to about exit 8.

Now they want to reach from 8 to 6. Where will this stop? At the Deleware Memorial Bridge??

You can have 20 lanes a side on that monster and still jam up traffic everyday.

I personally used it when the company would pick up the tolls otherwise I would run the good old Route 1. (and a few other smaller roads until killjoy Jersey kicked us off) Yes there were about 40 miles worth of stop lights every block but by maintaining 3-4 mph over the posted and keeping the "Yellows" two blocks behind you could breeze thru non stop.

I thought the NJT was king until I visited LA and saw where I-10 meets I-5... whew.

[Anonymous]

If there is room at this location, there is room anywhere in the U.S.!

From the New York Times

New Jersey Set to Expand Turnpike
By RONALD SMOTHERS

Published: December 1, 2004


NEWARK, Nov. 30 - For the first time in 20 years, New Jersey officials have proposed a significant expansion of the New Jersey Turnpike, an estimated $1.3 billion project that would add lanes to a stretch of roadway long known as an infuriating bottleneck.

The proposal, expected to be announced Wednesday by Acting Gov. Richard J. Codey, would add additional truck lanes in both directions between Exit 8A in Jamesburg and Exit 6, where the highway connects with the Pennsylvania Turnpike, according to state transportation officials.



Trucking industry officials and others said the proposal, coming at a time when the state faces budget deficits and is unable to get federal funding for toll roads, was likely to require increases in highway tolls and possibly an increase in the state fuel tax.

Mr. Codey is scheduled to announce the proposal in Cherry Hill at a speech to Pennsylvania and New Jersey business groups. According to transportation officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, Mr. Codey considers the corridor "one of the worst congestion spots in the state." Some 120,000 vehicles a day pass through the 21-mile stretch of roadway.

The southbound side is notorious because it is where two truck lanes and three car lanes slim down to just three lanes in all and trucks are fed into the car lanes. At all hours of the day or night, backups can stretch for miles to the north. The problem is made worse because there is a rest stop on the southbound side, where the lanes come together. On the northbound side, where the turnpike has three lanes up to Exit 8A, the problem stems from both congestion and lane jockeying by drivers anticipating the widening of the roadway.

Transportation officials said the governor's proposal to expand the roadway was spurred last month by Pennsylvania's decision to build a new interchange where the Pennsylvania Turnpike enters New Jersey and meets a spur from the New Jersey Turnpike.

That interchange is expected to funnel even more truck and automobile traffic onto the 52-year-old New Jersey Turnpike, along a booming corridor of warehouses and distribution centers that is already increasing traffic in the central New Jersey area.

One state transportation official who requested anonymity said the need to fix the problem in that area was widely recognized as long overdue.

"You have to think about the importance of this corridor to the state's economy, because it carries commuters and trucks from the port loaded with goods going to distribution centers for the whole region," the official said. "You can not overstate its importance."

News of the expansion plan was greeted happily, though with some caution, by trucking industry officials and representatives of drivers' groups in the state.

Gail Toth, a spokesman for the New Jersey Motor Truck Association, said the news was "a welcome surprise" to an industry that had watched various other proposals to ease the congestion fail amid budgetary and environmental concerns.

She said that by a conservative count, 147 warehouses and distribution centers have grown up around Exit 8A in recent years and that some employed as many as 400 people. Because there is little or no public transportation in that part of the state, she said, most of those workers must drive to work.

At the same time, she said, residential development is also booming in the area. "And all you have is the little old turnpike going through there," she said.

She said the industry was willing to pay increased tolls and even higher fuel taxes, so long as "they are properly phased in" to allow the industry to adjust.

Steve Carellas, the president of the New Jersey Motorist Association, said his group liked "the idea of increased capacity when there is a need" but was concerned about higher tolls. Further, he said, the debt service on the bonds for such an expansion was at least three times what the state was projecting.

Environmental groups and others said an additional benefit of the expansion was that it might eliminate the need for a proposed 6.5-mile spur at Exit 8A to carry truck traffic west to Route 1, Interstate 295 and other roadways into Pennsylvania. Environmentalists had opposed that long-planned road, listed as Route 92, arguing that it would destroy several acres of wetlands. Local residents also fear it will seed even more development in an area where there are still farms.

But Gov. James E. McGreevey and labor union supporters had long fought to keep the road proposal alive, and $244 million was set aside for it in the New Jersey Turnpike Authority budget.

One state transportation official cautioned, however, that there has been no change in the state's support for Route 92 and that it remained part of the state's "strategic plan" for easing congestion. He also said there were no plans to use the money set aside for that road to help pay for widening the turnpike.

That official said the first step in the project was to spend up to $10 million in existing New Jersey Turnpike Authority funds on an 18-month study of the cost, environmental and right-of-way barriers and construction schedule. Only then, he said, would officials focus on how to pay for the work.

"The very preliminary view is that a shovel might go into the ground in three years with completion in 2012 to 2015," he said.