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Acid Trip on UP bums out Organic Farmer

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Posted by espeefoamer on Thursday, December 2, 2004 2:48 PM
Did you stop by the fried beaver on a stick stand? It's really great[dinner]!
Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
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Posted by gabe on Thursday, December 2, 2004 2:15 PM
So if you went on rail property here, would you be "trespassing" or "stalking."

Gabe
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Posted by mloik on Thursday, December 2, 2004 2:03 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Say! Next spring the UP hauls a leaking covered hopper of seed corn over the same route. Share prices jump!!

Jay


A few years ago I was out by the old Kelso Depot in the Mojave Desert. Apparently there had been a derailment a few months earlier, and seed corn had spilled. Since this was winter, there had been rain. It was kinda weird to see all this corn growing along the ROW in the Mojave Desert!
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 2, 2004 1:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Great.....more homeless beavers trying to wash car windows at stop lights.


Forgot about these. I recall back home they would wait in packs at stop lights. The bigger and busier the intersecton the more "business"

They would swoop in and slap the squeeze onto that window and then ask for payment. Ahh, living in the south has it's benefits.
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Posted by railman on Thursday, December 2, 2004 12:53 PM
I wonder if this person will be upset if they run a steam engine special on the tracks!
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Posted by rrnut282 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 11:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

I bet he has more chemicals hit his property from overspray and drift from adjacent fields.

Dave H.


Exactly my point from earlier in this thread![:0]

Tell Mookie, I'll start heading for the corner...

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 7:22 PM
And the coolest thing is none of it actually spilled on his property.

It was dribbling out of the tank car so it fell on the ballast which is RR property. The railroad's right of way is probably 50-100 feet wide so that means it will have to leach out over 25-50 ft just to get to his property.

I bet he has more chemicals hit his property from overspray and drift from adjacent fields.

Dave H.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by jeaton on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 6:45 PM
Say! Next spring the UP hauls a leaking covered hopper of seed corn over the same route. Share prices jump!!

Jay

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 6:38 PM
If anyone is interested, this site, http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13337245&BRD=1842&PAG=461&dept_id=335645&rfi=8 will take you to my home town (about 8 miles west of Boone, Iowa ) newspaper's article of the spill. It also includes a picture of the tracks showing the acid between the rails.
I work over these tracks, but I wasn't involved with this train. I was in Utah attending student engineer's classes at the time.
Jeff
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Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 5:48 PM
I know a lot of railroaders who have beaver problems.....ohhhh, wait a minute, you mean problems with beavers?...

never mind...

Ed[:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

I think the beaver thing is GREAT. How often do railroads have serious beaver problems. I can still remember hirailing a certain regional railroad some years ago where they kept a blacksmith on staff to fabricate beaver devices for culverts and other spots where beavers cause trouble. If all you need is a few gallons of acid to run them off...

Better living through chemistry...lol....

LC

23 17 46 11

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Posted by mloik on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 5:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mloik

QUOTE:
FOTFLMAO!


mloik - you will have to translate. that is beyond my internet vocabulary.

dd


dd,

I had to ask a couple of weeks ago myself, and several of our forum friends filled me in...

FOTFLMAO = Falling On The Floor Laughing My A$$ Off

Cheers,
Michael


Whoops! Messed up the quote functions somehow.

Anyway, I wanted to note that this is usually written as "FOFLMAO" (i.e. leaving the "T" for "The" off)...I guess I was being too literal...

ML
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Posted by mloik on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 5:42 PM
QUOTE:
FOTFLMAO!


mloik - you will have to translate. that is beyond my internet vocabulary.

dd


dd,

I had to ask a couple of weeks ago myself, and several of our forum friends filled me in...

FOTFLMAO = Falling On The Floor Laughing My A$$ Off

Cheers,
Michael
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Posted by jeaton on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 5:04 PM
I've got to add to this.

Having spent a good part of my early years on a small operating dairy farm in northern Wisconsin, I have to consider the "organic" movement, if not extreme, at least very misguided. When my father bought the farm in 1946, the 50 or so acres of tillable land was in very poor shape. That was the result of perhaps 40-50 years of taking crops off the land, and only returning the material that cows produce that is not useful for human consumption.

One might consider soil like an inherited bank account. It comes with the compounds found in manufactured fertilizers, potash, phosphate and nitrogen compounds. If the land is cropped, eventually those nutrients must be replaced.

In spite of dealing with short growing seasons, we were able to dramaticly increase crop production with only the use of dry fertilizers, lime for ph balance and the afore mentioned waste product.

I won't necessarily disagree with those who believe that the use of some forms nutrient compounds, and pesticides and herbicides has gone too far, but on the other hand, if we plan to continue to eat, we have to allow the findings of ag-science research to be to be used.

Jay

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Has anybody heard of hydrofluoric acid or arsenic acid solution spilling. Apparently in St.Catharines along long time ago, CN derail some horrible poisonous acid all over a farmer's field. The government made CN clean it up including replacing the farmer's soil by sending in the backhoes and dumptrucks.

Just wondering if that has happened in the U.S?


About 20 years ago, UP had a tanker load of elemental Phosphorus (not phosphoric acid) leak into the yard at Soda Springs Idaho (I can't remember the cause). Phos. is shipped under water (thus the tank car) to prevent spontanious combustion. So when the Phos. hit the ground and dried out - it started on fire. The local fire dept. came and properly wet down the site - putting the fire out. UP cleaned up the spill by removing all the ballast and the top 3 feet of dirt under the contaminated track. The contaminated soil was buried in a landfill. All of this was done while periodically wetting the site to prevent Phos. fareups.

So in removing the ballast and soil, UP first pulled the rails and ties. The rails were set aside for reuse and the ties were neatly stack along the ROW for later disposal. Now remember that the ties were soaking wet from the fire suppression efforts.

Along comes a local who sees a stack of used ties - which he appropriates for a planned fence. He loads the ties into the back of his pickup and parks the truck in his garage. The ties dry out and the Phos. fares, burning down his house. Now the local has some real explaining to do:
UP - theft of RR property
EPA - unauthorized removal of hazmat
Insurance Co - why I burnt down my house.

Fortunately no one was injured.

dd


Who did he sue first?

A good offense is the best defense...lol...

LC
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Has anybody heard of hydrofluoric acid or arsenic acid solution spilling. Apparently in St.Catharines along long time ago, CN derail some horrible poisonous acid all over a farmer's field. The government made CN clean it up including replacing the farmer's soil by sending in the backhoes and dumptrucks.

Just wondering if that has happened in the U.S?


Yes, but it was about twenty years ago, a terrible chemical spill near Beaumont, TX. The land was vacant and unusable for several years until a company came in and scraped the soil and took it someplace in Canada...not sure where though.


Wow, not near Andrew'as birthplace was it?

LC
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:50 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

I think the beaver thing is GREAT. How often do railroads have serious beaver problems. I can still remember hirailing a certain regional railroad some years ago where they kept a blacksmith on staff to fabricate beaver devices for culverts and other spots where beavers cause trouble. If all you need is a few gallons of acid to run them off...

Better living through chemistry...lol....

LC


Give it a few days and someone will be posting a homeless hobo beaver manifesto, demanding the RRs provide free access to phosphoric acid-free rail transportation within the M&M domain.


FOFLMAO...

Indeed. I nominate ClevelandPebbles for that honor...

LC
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Posted by dldance on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mloik

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance
Along comes a local who sees a stack of used ties - which he appropriates for a planned fence. He loads the ties into the back of his pickup and parks the truck in his garage. The ties dry out and the Phos. fares, burning down his house. Now the local has some real explaining to do:
UP - theft of RR property
EPA - unauthorized removal of hazmat
Insurance Co - why I burnt down my house.

Fortunately no one was injured.

dd


FOTFLMAO!


mloik - you will have to translate. that is beyond my internet vocabulary.

dd
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Posted by mloik on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:30 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance
Along comes a local who sees a stack of used ties - which he appropriates for a planned fence. He loads the ties into the back of his pickup and parks the truck in his garage. The ties dry out and the Phos. fares, burning down his house. Now the local has some real explaining to do:
UP - theft of RR property
EPA - unauthorized removal of hazmat
Insurance Co - why I burnt down my house.

Fortunately no one was injured.

dd


FOTFLMAO!
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Posted by dldance on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:26 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Has anybody heard of hydrofluoric acid or arsenic acid solution spilling. Apparently in St.Catharines along long time ago, CN derail some horrible poisonous acid all over a farmer's field. The government made CN clean it up including replacing the farmer's soil by sending in the backhoes and dumptrucks.

Just wondering if that has happened in the U.S?


About 20 years ago, UP had a tanker load of elemental Phosphorus (not phosphoric acid) leak into the yard at Soda Springs Idaho (I can't remember the cause). Phos. is shipped under water (thus the tank car) to prevent spontanious combustion. So when the Phos. hit the ground and dried out - it started on fire. The local fire dept. came and properly wet down the site - putting the fire out. UP cleaned up the spill by removing all the ballast and the top 3 feet of dirt under the contaminated track. The contaminated soil was buried in a landfill. All of this was done while periodically wetting the site to prevent Phos. fareups.

So in removing the ballast and soil, UP first pulled the rails and ties. The rails were set aside for reuse and the ties were neatly stack along the ROW for later disposal. Now remember that the ties were soaking wet from the fire suppression efforts.

Along comes a local who sees a stack of used ties - which he appropriates for a planned fence. He loads the ties into the back of his pickup and parks the truck in his garage. The ties dry out and the Phos. fares, burning down his house. Now the local has some real explaining to do:
UP - theft of RR property
EPA - unauthorized removal of hazmat
Insurance Co - why I burnt down my house.

Fortunately no one was injured.

dd
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Posted by jeaton on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 4:03 PM
For those of you who were too late for the '60s, don't worry. I go with Jerry on this, "If you remember the '60s, you weren't there".

Jay

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by dharmon on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 3:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Ask the German fishing fleet about that some time.

Gabe


Are you referring to the "Hogger Bank" Incident?
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Posted by dharmon on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 3:32 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

I think the beaver thing is GREAT. How often do railroads have serious beaver problems. I can still remember hirailing a certain regional railroad some years ago where they kept a blacksmith on staff to fabricate beaver devices for culverts and other spots where beavers cause trouble. If all you need is a few gallons of acid to run them off...

Better living through chemistry...lol....

LC


Give it a few days and someone will be posting a homeless hobo beaver manifesto, demanding the RRs provide free access to phosphoric acid-free rail transportation within the M&M domain.


His name wouldnt be KissMyCabeaver would it?
[X-)][%-)][D)]


[bow]
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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 3:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

I think the beaver thing is GREAT. How often do railroads have serious beaver problems. I can still remember hirailing a certain regional railroad some years ago where they kept a blacksmith on staff to fabricate beaver devices for culverts and other spots where beavers cause trouble. If all you need is a few gallons of acid to run them off...

Better living through chemistry...lol....

LC


Give it a few days and someone will be posting a homeless hobo beaver manifesto, demanding the RRs provide free access to phosphoric acid-free rail transportation within the M&M domain.


His name wouldnt be KissMyCabeaver would it?
[X-)][%-)][D)]

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by gabe on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 3:04 PM
Ask the German fishing fleet about that some time.

Gabe
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Posted by dharmon on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 2:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Has anybody heard of hydrofluoric acid or arsenic acid solution spilling. Apparently in St.Catharines along long time ago, CN derail some horrible poisonous acid all over a farmer's field. The government made CN clean it up including replacing the farmer's soil by sending in the backhoes and dumptrucks.

Just wondering if that has happened in the U.S?


Yes, but it was about twenty years ago, a terrible chemical spill near Beaumont, TX. The land was vacant and unusable for several years until a company came in and scraped the soil and took it someplace in Canada...not sure where though.
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Posted by Junctionfan on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 2:43 PM
Has anybody heard of hydrofluoric acid or arsenic acid solution spilling. Apparently in St.Catharines along long time ago, CN derail some horrible poisonous acid all over a farmer's field. The government made CN clean it up including replacing the farmer's soil by sending in the backhoes and dumptrucks.

Just wondering if that has happened in the U.S?
Andrew
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 12:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Uranium occurs in nature too. Do you want that added to your food? No? It used to be added to pottery glaze, which ended up in your food, which ended up in your gut. The point of organic farming is to avoid artificial substances that weren't there when the human being was first designed by nature (or God, whichever your personal ideology believes), to avoid ingesting things that are either poisonous or out-of-spec from the original design. Personally, I like eating all sorts of things that are quite bad for your health -- bacon, Necco wafers, and juicy corn-fed cows come to mind -- but I do respect the right of others to do business and eat food as they see fit.

I do wish everyone would drop the "railroads were there first so they have carte blanche to do whatever they feel like" mantra. That philosophy is very dangerous; if you take it to it's next logical step, we'll be giving Native Americans the right to set up their lodges in back yards and cutting down our ornamental shrubs for firewood, followed by the Native Americans arguing among themselves that it's really the Athabaskans who own everything because they were the first across the Bering Land Bridge, etc. Besides, when the C&NW's predecessor reached Council Bluffs in 1867, there were plenty of farmers already in Iowa, so on its own facts the statement is false.


I don't feel too educated right about now. Mark takes the trouble to give this great post and the entire time I am reading it all I can think of is (in a Homer-Simpson like voice): Mmmm Juicy Corn Fed Cows.

I can unpack my brief case now.

Gabe


Darn it Gabe, and Mark. Now I'm gonna have to have steak today...

My wife was looking through the Omaha Steaks catalog earlier for a gift and between that and you guys...

Maybe I can hit a steer with my choo choo and drag it in on an mty 89' flat...lol...

LC
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Posted by gabe on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 12:50 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Don't be too disapointed, Mark. Many of the more active members of the "Decade of Love" got a disease. You got a job.

Gabe


Yeah.......My mom is still coping with what she caught back then.........me


Very funny
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Posted by dharmon on Wednesday, December 1, 2004 12:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Don't be too disapointed, Mark. Many of the more active members of the "Decade of Love" got a disease. You got a job.

Gabe


Yeah.......My mom is still coping with what she caught back then.........me

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