Ruined Rail Photo Op Makes News

[wanswheel]

https://archive.org/details/meccano-magazine-1927-01

[wanswheel]

Anything’s possible. Certainly the pilot flew low before.

      

 

 

Article from Britain From Above

 

Gordon Percy Olley (1893-1958)

 

Captain Gordon Olley was a pilot. Whilst we do not know to what extent he flew for Aerofilms – we do not believe he was a direct employee for the firm, but rather acted in his capacity as pilot at Handley Page Transport Ltd – he was the pilot involved in the infamous Southwark Boating Lake Crash in 1920 that saw him and Francis Lewis Wills, one of Aerofilms founders, summoned to court under the Air Navigation Regulations.

 

Known as ‘G.P.O’, Gordon Percy Olley was born on 29^th April 1893 in Harleston, Norfolk. Son of George E. Olley and Eliza Dow and brother to Dora M. (born c.1886 Harleston) and Reginald G. (born c.1888 Harleston) he was working as an Apprentice at a Wholesale Clothing Warehouse at the time of the 1911 Census, the family having moved to 161 Gloucester Road, Bristol some time before the 1901 Census.

 

He was later employed as a motor salesman at Selfridges in London from 1912 to August 1914.

 

At the onset of the First World War, Gordon Olley initially enlisted with the Queen Victoria Rifles in August 1914 but after an incident with an irate sergeant he changed to enlist with the Royal Fusiliers. Owning his own motor cycle he was appointed a despatch rider but found the waiting around a bit dull so subsequently applied at the HQ of the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) to ask if there was any chance of them taking him on. Fortunately they were short on despatch riders so he was successfully transferred and sent to France being attached to the RFC No. 1 Squadron. Once in France he asked for the opportunity to learn to fly and became a corporal observer with the Canadian pilot Lieutenant Dore before returning to the UK to Salisbury Plain to learn to fly and qualify for his wings, taking his first solo flight after only three hours of instruction.

 

Returning to No. 1 Squadron as a Sergeant pilot he was drafted home in 1917 to join the company of RFC airmen known as ‘ferry pilots’ whose task was to fly new planes out from England to the aerodromes in France. He was made an Officer in 1918 and was also the recipient of the Military Medal, a 1915 Star Medal (when a 2nd Air mechanic in the RFC, Regimental No 6313), Victory Medal and British Medal.

 

After the war Olley joined Handley Page Transport Ltd, flying on the first Continental air services. He was hired as a pilot by Aerofilms Ltd, and was the pilot involved in the infamous Southwark Boating Lake Crash in 1920 that saw him and Francis Lewis Wills, one of Aerofilms founders, summoned to court under the Air Navigation Regulations. This was “for flying over London, and in particular the Bermondsey district, on March 31 in an Avro aeroplane, of which he was pilot, at an altitude which did not enable the aircraft to land outside London by means of propulsion, the engine having failed through a mechanical breakdown. There was also a summons for flying over London at a low altitude dangerous to the public safety.” The case had been brought by the Commissioner of Police but it is reported that when it was called no parties were in attendance so no further action was taken.

 

He also worked for K.LM. inaugurating the London to Amsterdam route in 1921 before moving to Imperial Airways when it formed in 1924. He started the Silver Wing service from London to Paris in 1927 and remained chief pilot at Imperial until 1934, having been put in charge of a department created to deal exclusively with all individual and special charters of aircraft for long distant flights both in the UK and overseas in 1928. This included flying bullion and big-game hunters all around the world.

 

When he left Imperial in 1934 it was to start his own company, Olley Air Services Ltd, principally a charter airline that operated out of Croydon but which also built up services to the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and the Scilly Isles acquiring concerns such as Sir Alan Cobham’s Cobham Air Routes Ltd around 1935/36. It was also in 1934 that he published his autobiography “A Million Miles in the Air.” This marked the fact that he was the first pilot to have flown a million miles, reaching this milestone in 1931.

 

It is also said that of the 40,000 passengers he carried there was not one casualty. This is not to say however, that there were not incidents and crashes over his career. He notes in his autobiography that as pilot for Handley Page he had to make 17 forced landings and land in a field rather that at the aerodrome on one occasion as it was getting dark and he could not find it. Another incident was recorded in The Times in 1925 under the headline ‘Airman’s Safe Landing’. This reports on how Captain Olley was able to get both his plane and passengers to the scheduled destination of Croydon Airport despite dense fog which was so thick it took the ground staff a long time to locate them after landing. The Times described this as ‘a feat unprecedented in the history of civil aviation.’

 

Gordon Olley died March 18 1958 at Wimbledon Hospital at the age of 64. His obituary in The Times says that he had a ‘small, compact figure, quick movements, and trim moustache’, and was ‘known to thousands of regular air travelers.’ A scholarship in honour of his memory has been set up by his daughter, Dr. June Olley, with the Royal Aeronautical Society. The G.P. Olley Award is aimed at those studying in the field of aviation medicine.

 

http://www.utas.edu.au/academic-governance/academic-senate/academic-senate-rules/scholarships/captain-gordon-p-olley-scholarship-in-aviation-rule-104

 

http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/csr/programs-and-services/tasmanian_honour_roll_of_women/inductees/2006/june_olley_am

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/olley.php

Olley evidently wrote about 4 pages on racing the Flying Scotsman.

http://croydonairportcalling.blogspot.com/2016/01/olley-air-services-and-geoffrey-keating.html#more

http://croydonairportcalling.blogspot.com/2015/06/aerial-photographs-of-middle-east-in.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=YPCtAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT57&dq=%22+dragon+rapide+DH89%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSi9GNo6DLAhUDKyYKHedcAOkQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=%22%20dragon%20rapide%20DH89%22&f=false

[M636C]

Having returned to a location where I can see the Getty images photo, I'm tempted to say that it looks like a real photo of the airliner and the train together and the other photo with the train much closer has had the aircraft retouched in. It looks as though the train was stopped, or at least slowed down for the photo.

M636C

[CPRcst]

Road speeds and distance in the UK use the Imperial system (miles)

[M636C]

While the caption for the Berwick bridge photo helps. the earlier reproduction shows much more detail. The headboard may not read "Flying Scotsman" but it isn't clear. The last two digits of the locomotive number are "53", and since it is an A1 and not an A3 it should be 2553, one of the 1924 locomotives. It appears to have a corridor tender.

I felt I should comment on the tile of the video on the 1932 race/radio demonstration. The name "In the Van" suggests "leading" as the traditional meaning, in reference to the advanced technology (voice radio to an aircraft) but British press writers have liking for puns and the radio was set up in a baggage vehicle, (as seen by the small slit like windows near roof level) known in England as a "guard's van".

M636C

[vsmith]

[wanswheel]

Actual caption: “Imperial Airways bi-plane, the 'City of Glasgow', flying over the River Tweed at Berwick during a race to Scotland against the LNER Pacific class steam locomotive The 'Flying Scotsman'. The locomotive pictured is in fact the Junior Scotsman, which the pilot had temporarily confused with the Scotsman.”

Capt. Gordon P. Olley

 

Excerpt from Flight, Official Organ of the Royal Aero Club of the United Kingdom, June 21 1928

Train v. Aeroplane

A novel "stunt" was carried out on June 15 when a simultaneous journey was made from London to Edinburgh by train and aeroplane—the "Flying Scotsman" and the Imperial Airways Armstrong-Whitworth air liner "City of Glasgow" respectively. After breakfast at the Savoy Hotel, the two parties of travellers proceeded to their respective points of departure—King's Cross and Croydon. Train and aeroplane both departed at the same time, 10 a.m., the "City of Glasgow" being piloted by Capt. G. P. Olley, who was accompanied by Mr. J. Birkett, aged 79, a retired L.N.E.R. engine driver, Air Vice-Marshal Sir Vyell Vyvyan and Maj. Brackley. Capt. G. P. Jones, Imperial Airways pilot, was a passenger on the train! The "City of Glasgow" flew via the East Coast, and made stops at Bircham, Newton, and Cramlington; it arrived at Turnhouse Aerodrome, Edinburgh, 15 minutes before the "Flying Scotsman" reached Waverley Station.

[M636C]

wanswheel

M636C, the Getty photo of the Flying Scotsman with the strange engine number might be the Junior Scotsman, the second section, I guess. The airplane’s letters are right. The caption was copied from This Day in Aviation.

I probably should explain that my previous posting was made during a break at my place of work. One oddity of that workplace is that many websites are blocked and as a result I don't see some photos linked from blocked websites.

For whatever reason, the Getty photograph didn't appear at all and the video was blocked (as are virtually all videos) but the Caters photo did appear (with the HP42) and I commented on that as if it was the only photo (because it was the only one I could see).

So it was that one that illustrated 2744 "Grand Parade" (it is really sad when you can remember a locomotive name like that- its claim to fame was that it was badly damaged in a derailment and a replacement locomotive appeared before the original entered the workshops) is the obvious fake with the non corridor tender.

To address the Getty photo, I note that the former Midland Railway's St Pancras station with its church-like spire which should appear where the AW Argosy appears is not visible, suggesting that that shot is also retouched, if at least with the correct aircraft for the 1928 race.

The locomotive in the Getty photo 2552 "Sansovino" (one of the 1924 batch built by North British) is at least an A1 with a corridor tender on the "Flying Scotsman". I don't think the headboard was carried by other trains including what might be regarded as a second section.

Having looked at the video, it looks as if the Caters photo is a frame from the film of the 1932 race (or radio experiment) with the HP42  retouched in place at a much lower altitude.

Strangely, the video suggests that the "fake" headboard was actually in place on loco 2744 in 1932, even though that loco could not have worked a non stop train, since its non corridor tender is clear in the video as well.

To add further to the confusion, the train overflown in the video had the name "Flying Scotsman" painted in white on the roof of one of the middle passenger cars, but this wasn't visible in the ground movie shots of the train, suggesting that it wasn't the same train in the air and ground shots.

I'd almost believe that for some technical reason, the ground movie couldn't show the same train as the air movie, and knowing this, a non standard headboard was placed on an earlier or later train just for the filming.

And this is quite apart from the fact that we are looking at two events, in 1928 about the time of the start of non stop operation and four years later in 1932. The 1928 "race" was on 15 June, the non stop service started on 1 May.

And I apologise for mistyping my screen name in the earlier post.

M636C

[daveklepper]

Yes, I did see the Flysing Scottsman at the Britisih Pavilion at the 1939 WF.   I don't think we were allowed to visit the cab interior, but did walk through the train's interior.  
Age 7-1/2, and that is my memory..  

[wanswheel]

M636C, the Getty photo of the Flying Scotsman with the strange engine number might be the Junior Scotsman, the second section, I guess. The airplane’s letters are right. The caption was copied from This Day in Aviation.

http://www.thisdayinaviation.com/15-june-1928/

[NorthWest]

M636C

The "Royal Scot" that came to the USA was No 6152 and not 6100, but it is thought that the identities did not change back on return to the UK and the locomotive that visited the USA in 1933 is preserved (although it was rebuilt with a new type of boiler and looks quite different.)

Visiting the USA is good for British steam locomotives. Another locomotive that appeared at the B&O "Fair of the Iron Horse" in 1927, "King George V" is preserved in working order and retains the bell fitted for the visit. Counting "Flying Scotsman" and "Duchess of Hamilton", that makes four locomotives that visted the USA that are preserved.

But Otto Perry's photographs are an amazing resource, particularly since you can zoom in on detail.

M535C

Thanks, M636C.

It looks like 6152 was named The King's Dragoon Guardsman
and so the original 6100 did not survive. The second 6100 returned to steam this August.

(And it looks like our font of knowledge M636C has switched identities with an unknown M535C. Perhaps another model for the Diesels Catalogued but not Built thread? :) )

I have always wondered why early British airliners lacked enclosed cockpits. It seems strange to have the pilots up above but I supose it was a carryover from earlier days.

[kenny dorham]

Holy Cow.....what timing.!

Any of you Guys/Gals good at math.....what were the Vegas Odds on THAT happening.?

[BaltACD]

A little more modern -

http://www.topgear.com/videos/top-gear-tv/great-train-race-part-14-series-13-episode-1

[M636C]

wanswheel

“15 June 1928: Imperial Airways’ Captain Gordon P. Olley flew an Armstong Whitworth A.W.154 Argosy Mk.1, G-EBLF, named City of Glasgow, with 18 passengers aboard, from Croydon to Edinburgh Turnhouse in a race with the London and North Eastern Railways’ famed A1 Class Flying Scotsman. The apple green steam-powered 4–6–2 Pacific-type locomotive pulled the world’s fastest passenger train in express service from London, England to Glasgow, Scotland.”

http://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/imperial-airways/

1932

 

I think the above still photo might be a fake.

Certainly it doesn't match the caption very well.

The aircaft is not an Argosy but was known as the "Heracles" class.

The locomotive is clearly not 4472 and not even an A1, but is A3 class 2744 (off the top of my head named "Grand Parade").

The train nameplate on the smokebox door is not the standard nameplate which was white with black lettering without the definite article before the name.

So the train is probably not the "Flying Scotsman", the locomotive isn't "Flying Scotsman" and the aircraft was not the one involved and it is probably added to the photo in post production.

The photo on the Berwick bridge looks more or less genuine but the aircraft may have posed for a shot later.

M636C

EDIT: A closer look at No 2744's tender shows it to have the three coal rails at the side of the coal space that identifies it as the original type of tender fitted to the A1 class, but specifically a non-corridor tender.

The photo on the Berwick bridge definitely shows an A1 class (no "patches" on the smokebox to provide access to the larger superheater header) and the correct train nameboard on the smokebox and a corridor tender, although the cab side number is obscured.... But with the correct aircraft, that could be a shot from the day...

[Firelock76]

It's a Handley-Page all right, an HP-45.  Good aiplanes, not particularly pretty, but good planes nonetheless. 

There were two variants, the HP-42 and HP-45, "Herakles," shown in the newsreel, was a 45 model.  All variants flew from 1931 to 1939 when they were commandeered for RAF use.  Excellent safety records, they never lost a passenger.

[54light15]

Isn't the four-engined biplane with the angled struts a Handley-Page?

[samfp1943]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=photos%2farmstrong-whitworth+argosy+ii+%3f&view=detailv2&&id=04686493CE1498DD421E200C8AF74098E394A51E&selectedIndex=11&ccid=HC%2bDezP7&simid=608030055612680542&thid=OIP.M1c2f837b33fb9d6332f3c0e9fec20080o0&ajaxhist=0

Firelock76

An Armstrong-Whitworth!  So that's what it was!

Thanks for posting wanswheel, and thanks for that Pathe' newsreel!

You know, certainly "the good old days" weren't always good, but there were times they must have had a ball in back then.  All that cool stuff!

 

YEP! Thanks, Mike! (wanswheel)

   That aircraft had me tearing my hair out...Most of the Tri-planes manufactured during that inter-war period were monoplanes.      At first I thought that it was some kind of a European-liscensed Fokker product/varient  (based on the JU52's, and/or  their predecessor W33s(?).  

Then I was on to the Armstrong-Whitworth (Argosy I&II model). It was an open cockpit, bi-winged tri-motor, with the passenger cabin inclosed. They are the same company that  manufactured the "Argosy' Cargo aircraft of more recent vintage. see link @ http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=photos%2farmstrong-whitworth+argosy+ii+%3f&view=detailv2&&id=04686493CE1498DD421E200C8AF74098E394A51E&selectedIndex=11&ccid=HC%2bDezP7&simid=608030055612680542&thid=OIP.M1c2f837b33fb9d6332f3c0e9fec20080o0&ajaxhist=0

Anyway here is a link to a photo of an ArgosyII @ http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Dice/2996/armstrong-whitworth-argosy.jpg

[Firelock76]

An Armstrong-Whitworth!  So that's what it was!

Thanks for posting wanswheel, and thanks for that Pathe' newsreel!

You know, certainly "the good old days" weren't always good, but there were times they must have had a ball back then.  All that cool stuff!

[wanswheel]

“15 June 1928: Imperial Airways’ Captain Gordon P. Olley flew an Armstong Whitworth A.W.154 Argosy Mk.1, G-EBLF, named City of Glasgow, with 18 passengers aboard, from Croydon to Edinburgh Turnhouse in a race with the London and North Eastern Railways’ famed A1 Class Flying Scotsman. The apple green steam-powered 4–6–2 Pacific-type locomotive pulled the world’s fastest passenger train in express service from London, England to Glasgow, Scotland.”

http://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/imperial-airways/

1932

[Firelock76]

Anyone know what kind of tri-motor aircraft is racing the train in one of wanswheel's pictures?  I'm drawing a blank on that one.

[M636C]

The "Royal Scot" that came to the USA was No 6152 and not 6100, but it is thought that the identities did not change back on return to the UK and the locomotive that visited the USA in 1933 is preserved (although it was rebuilt with a new type of boiler and looks quite different.)

Visiting the USA is good for British steam locomotives. Another locomotive that appeared at the B&O "Fair of the Iron Horse" in 1927, "King George V" is preserved in working order and retains the bell fitted for the visit.

Counting "Flying Scotsman" and "Duchess of Hamilton", that makes four locomotives that visted the USA that are preserved.

But Otto Perry's photographs are an amazing resource, particularly since you can zoom in on detail.

M535C 

[NorthWest]

Yes, the Coronation Scot was in New York for the 1939 World's Fair.

Otto Perry took a picture of it there, note Long Island coach/MU in the background.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/66610/rec/2

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/66614/rec/5

Apparently the locomotive returned to the UK during the war but the luxury coaches did not, and never entered Coronation service.

As noted earlier, this wasn't the first LMS engine to visit the US, LMS Royal Scot 6100 (or the locomotive that switched identities with the real 6100, I don't remember which one) visited in 1933 and made it at least as far as Denver, where Otto Perry also managed to photogragh it.

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/66612/rec/3

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/66613/rec/4

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/66609/rec/1

[wanswheel]

[Deggesty]

Ah, yes, the Flying Scotsman! I have two nice slides that I took when the train went through Tuscaloosa on its way to New Orleans--I captured the locomootive from one side of a street bridge, and was able to immediately cross over the street and get a picture of the rear. I regreted that i was not able to ride the train from Birminham to Meridian.

When My wife and I were in San Francisco in July of 1972, we were able to tour the train, drinking tea in the rear car, and walking through the train into the engine snd bsck.

[Firelock76]

That's it!  Too bad the PRR's S-1 from the same Fair wasn't saved, or a Dreyfuss Hudson.  Oh well...

[BaltACD]

http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/sunday-streamline-68-blue-and-crimson

[Firelock76]

Probably something we need Dave Klepper's input on, he was AT the 1939 World's Fair!

Interesting to compare the size of that British locomotive to the American one.

Bingo!  I just did a quick Wiki search, and that British locomotive is the "Duchess of Hamilton," it WAS displayed at the 1939 Worlds Fair and is still around today as an exhibit in York, England.

[54light15]

When I saw the Scotsman in the museum at York in 2004, it had a fold-down Janney coupler on the rear of the tender. The guy said it was from the USA trip and they never felt a need to remove it and it was used again in Australia. I well remember the cowcatcher when it was at NYP in 1969. I have a DVD set regarding it and on one it shows the FS being towed into Penn by a GG1. 

But, wasn't there another Brit brought over for the Chicago World's Fair in the early 30s?

[BaltACD]

Firelock76

 

 

BaltACD

 

1939 English Tour in USA vs. B&O's Royal Blue Limited - note headlight & bell

 

 

 

 

This is a surprise, I didn't know a British steamliner was here in 1939.  Was that in conjunction with the 1939 World's Fair in New York?

That would be my guess - but I don't know for sure.  I think the train is the 'Coronation Scot'.