1st, 2nd, 3rd generation diesels?

[tree68]

In the spirit of healthy debate:

Perhaps the early "proof of concept" diesels should be "Generation Zero". While they certainly were the first, there was little consistency, as ideas were sorted out, concepts proved (or disproved) and people learned. Even some of the "Generation zero" stuff ran into the 50's or 60's.

My mental picture of "first generation" has always been the production units, the units that actually replaced steam. Of course, the carbody is foremost, regardless of the builder. The early hoods (RS's, GP7 & 9, Trainmaster, etc) also fit into that area.

I still see second generation as the era of bigger and badder. Mark pretty well hit the imprecision of the milestones, but also outlined what deliniates that particular change.

The morph to third generation is a little less precise, but is another jump to even bigger and badder, and does factor in the emergence of AC. It may also include the general move to all 6 axle power.

That still leaves fourth generation as Tier 2, perhaps the most quantifiable step since the move from carbodies. While the base technology remains the same, the fact that there is actually a date and a measurable level of performance argues for the designation.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Peter:
Since you're on the other side of the globe and are a lot more familiar with export designs than I am, are there similar generational differences among export models?
Paul

[Anonymous]

I guess the Green Goat and Green Kid.

[vsmith]

Simple, each generation, they get UGLIER! and there are less roadnames to be painted on them...

[M636C]

One way of looking at it is what the locomotives actually did, and how they were built.
E.D. Worley's "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail" actually lists, by number, the FT units that were traded in on GP20 GP30 and GP35 locomotives. So there is no question that the GP20 -GP35 were second generation.

Most people would regard the E8 as "First Generation" with its 567B engines. But AT&SF traded in their EA units and the original "No1" pair on E8s, and several of these ran with the old number. They even used the trucks and motors from the old units. So for AT&SF, they were "Second Generation".

The UP's huge purchase of SD70M locomotives, apart from keeping EMD in business, has replaced alot of UP "Second Generation" power, SD40-2s (I know, I've seen them here in Australia). So for UP, the SD70M is really "Third Generation" power.

But since BNSF still has a lot of AT&SF "Second Generation" power around (if not in first line service), I don't think we can talk of "Fourth Generation" yet. The technology is stabilising, and locomotives are lasting longer. The AT&SF 201A powered EAs lasted only from about 1937 until 1952, say 15 years. A number of 1952 units are still around now, 52 years later. This is because they were greatly improved over the pre WWII units, and because subsequent improvements (despite the advertising) have not been as dramatic as far as operating costs and reliability is concerned.

But there is no doubt that we are really in a "Third Generation" now!

Peter

[tree68]

If ACs were the new technology of choice, as in replacing the DCs, I'd call them the next generation. Instead, I do agree that T2 will be the foundation for the 4th generation.

Consider - First generation is a no-brainer. Second generation generally was improvements on first generation, the biggest point being the introduction of electronics into the mix. Third generation, the way I see it, is a move to higher horsepower (with all previous improvements rolled in). It's really kind of hard to quantify (I'm sure someone will straighten me out, though), as it sort of morphed from gen two.

As I said, AC is really a subset. The next true transition will be T2.

[Anonymous]

I guess you could say that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

I don't know about the ACe and M-2. Don't they have 710's?

Yes, they do have the 710 block. But they are T2 compliant and I bet they have upgraded electronics. If we consider GE's ES Series to be 4th generation, then why not EMD's newest locomotives?

[Anonymous]

I don't know about the ACe and M-2. Don't they have 710's?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

QUOTE: Originally posted by Guilford350
ES Series

I wonder if these really are 4th generation.

Come to think of it, maybe they could be considered 4th generation. EMD's 70ACe and 70M-2 could be as well.

[railman]

I would think, that with the advances in computers and other technology that we may be on the verge of a 4th generation.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Guilford350
ES Series

I wonder if these really are 4th generation.

[Anonymous]

This is what I consider to be in the generations-

1st Generation-
F-units, E-units, GP7-GP18, SD7-SD18
FA units, PA units, most RS units

2nd Generation-
GP20-GP40-2, SD24-SD40-2
U18-U36, Dash-7's

3rd Generation-
GP50-GP60, SD50-SD90
Dash-8's, Dash-9's, AC units, ES Series

[dwil89]

To simplify it, the first generation diesels would be classified as the earliest diesels, the EMD E and F units, Alco PA and FA's, Baldwin Centpedes, etc...perhaps your Geep7's and 9's.2nd generation would typify your GP30's, SD35's ,40's 45's.on up...GE U boats...U23's..etc, Alco Centuries.....3rd Generation would be the modern computer/ microprocessor controlled units...SD60M's through 90MACS, GE Dash8's on through today's Dash Nine variants, and ES40DC's. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[espeefoamer]

Ist generation diesels replaced steam locomotives.The 2nd generation came when new diesels replaced older diesels.I think this started with the GP20.I'm not sure when the 3rd generation started.Possibly with the SD 50 or SD60.

[ShaunCN]

what is the diference beteween 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation diesels? How do you tell them apart, was it something to do with when they were built? [:I]