No more Trains in Chicago!

[Anonymous]

I can't remember what web site it was but on the UP site and from what I have heard on the WGN news last night the UP & CN have agreed to reroute trains around Chicago! It Sounds like to me that Chicago's Railroad day's are numbered.



VOID THIS TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Junctionfan]

I don't think so. Chicago interchanges maybe declining but not by much. Chicago has quite a bit of industries to work. They have tons of chemical industries as well as paper, milling or corn syrup manufacturing around the Chicago area. There is several steel mills near Chicago that require interchanging with other railroads. Chicago is and will likely always be alive and well.

[jeaton]

NOT!!!

See http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25119

Jay

[DPD1]

I don't think they plan on diverting ALL traffic by any means. Chicago is so busy, you could probably take away a fifth of it, and still see delays. They say these routes will be focused on:

<<<- Rail traffic moving between Western Canada and Texas will now be
consolidated and interchanged at Superior, avoiding the Chicago terminal
and reducing handlings en route;

- Wisconsin traffic between Texas and Arkansas will move in a new
run-through service to Salem in southern Illinois, rather than being
interchanged at Chicago, and

- Traffic moving between eastern Canada and the south-central United
States will be interchanged at Memphis, avoiding congestion in Chicago. >>>


That still leaves a lot of traffic.

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-Rail Radio Online-Home of the "TrainTenna" RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline

[Junctionfan]

I don't know why CN,CP,CSX and NS can't interchange at Detroit where all those rails reach instead of Memphis.

[Saxman]

It should be no surprise that CN and UP are looking to interchange traffic at places other than Chicago. One of the synergys of the CN/IC merger is that certain traffic that was interchanged at Chicago can now be interchanged elsewhere. CN already uses the EJ&E to funnel traffic around Chicago. CN already interchanges trains with the UP at Salem, IL. I am sure the people in service design at CN are looking at what other traffic can be sent via the EJ&E to Matteson then south on the exIC. As a CN employee that has worked west from Battle Creek, I often stated that eventually CN would look at ways to bypass Chicago to head south.

Saxman

[MP173]

I just read today's Chicago Tribune which went into a little more detail on the plans. The article indicated that "14,000 to 15,000 freight carloads annually (would be diverted".

Ok. Is it safe to assume that 14,000 "carloads" is equal to 28,000 car movements with the returns of empties? or not? If so that is the equivilant to essentially 1 train per day being diverted. That is including the Western and Eastern Canada movements to the Southwest. The article further indicated that the movements from Eastern Canada will be diverted to the EJE at Griffith and then back to the CN at Mattson. One to two days transit time would be saved accordingly, the article indicated.

Now, I believe UP traffic is already moving via the EJE to Chicago Heights. I could be incorrect on this, but where is the time savings?

Saxman, you indicated the CN is interchanging trains with UP at Salem. The CN and UP do not cross at Salem, but at Kinmundy, a few miles north. I did not realize there was an interchange there. I havent been to Kinmundy in years, but the Terra Server aerial photo does not show an interchange there....of course it is over 6 years old. Perhaps one was put in.

Does the CN run down the former IC to Southern Illinois with the UP traffic now or turn it over on the EJE?

Will this eliminate the CN 398 and 399 trains?

thanks

ed

[Glen Ellyn]

Unfortionattly, BNSF railfan is right. I heard thin on the radio in Glen Ellyn. But, all it said was that the UP and CN were going to watch out for conbustion. What that means, I don't know.

[MP173]

Well, I stand corrected about Kinmundy, IL!

That STB website is certainly chocked full of information. I will have to remember that.

Mark, what is the ratio of empty car movements, generally speaking. On shipper owned or controlled cars, I would imagine it would be pretty substancial. It is interesting when watching a passing train to observe the springs and see how many are loads vs mt's.

ed

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Methinks you've been beguiled by lines on a map instead of enlightened by the plant in the field, Andrew. Have you taken an upclose look at the throughput capacity of the yards, main tracks, and junctions in Detroit? No? Well, think Chicago, except with even greater problems.

Anyway, a Detroit interchange gets you less than nowhere. The traffic in question is moving between the Southwest Territory and Eastern Canada. Assuming you did interchange from CN/CPR to NS/CSX in Detroit, now you have to get it to UP. That forces the traffic through Toledo on CSX, if it's to avoid Chicago -- and Toledo isn't pretty, either. On NS, it forces it down the Wabash which is capacity constrained by autos and autoparts. Either way it eventually has to go onto the C&EI, which is capacity constrained, or into St. Louis, which is a place to be avoided. The solution is at least twice as worse as the problem.

Andrew, Detroit for all railroads except CPR is really on the end of everyone's branch line -- and CPR is on trackage rights from just west of the tunnel portal onward. No major trunk line, in the true sense of the term, runs through Detroit. It's a place set up to generate and consume traffic, not a place set up to pass through traffic.

How about Toledo for traffic that is going to south centreal U.S (which is what I meant)?
CSX has 2 yards (Walbridge and Stanley), NS has 1 (Airline) and CN has 1 (Lang). As far as CP is concerned, they could just run straight to NS or CSX yards or they could rent space if possible from Ann Arbor's Ottawa Yard (depends on how big that yard is)

[JoeKoh]

Mark
unless you know something I dont the last i heard was stanley yard was re-opened because of congestion at walbridge yard. Will check it out.
stay safe
Joe

[JoeKoh]

mark
cp has changed the trackage rights with csx. they want to go to ns that way they can keep their crews.they(NS) are building a wye at butler indiana but havent heard too much more about it. will keep looking.
stay safe
joe