Trains.com

Big wind, bigger mess.

3324 views
20 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Cardiff, CA
  • 2,930 posts
Posted by erikem on Monday, December 21, 2015 10:45 PM

tree68


 

Boyd

Can a tornado knock over a heavy locomotive? 

 

 

Maybe an EF5 with a direct hit(300 MPH winds...).  

 

 Would that be a NH EF5 or Milw EF5???

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 21, 2015 9:26 PM

Boyd

Can a tornado knock over a heavy locomotive? 

Maybe an EF5 with a direct hit(300 MPH winds...).  

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 21, 2015 6:43 PM

Semper Vaporo
It was nearly lost because of all the houseboats that came loose upstream and hit the RR bridge.  Most went under it and were shredded in the process.  It was feared that the large empty plastic drums that the houseboats were mounted on would get stuck under the bridge and lift it off the piers.

 

So did UP hire some people to come out and take target practice with their AK-47s and AR-16s ?

 

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: St. Paul, Minnesota
  • 2,116 posts
Posted by Boyd on Monday, December 21, 2015 6:13 PM

Can a tornado knock over a heavy locomotive?

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 9:33 AM

BaltACD
 
Semper Vaporo

CRANDIC had a similar problem with cars parked on a bridge over the Iowa river in Iowa City many years ago.  I remember seeing news videos showing them cutting through couplers using a torch on the end of an 8 or 10 ft. long pipe so the workman could be standing on the bridge and away from the cars as they came apart and fell into the river.

I understand they now have a rule that says no cars are to be stored on overpasses.

 

Yet when it comes to 'protection' against flooding river conditions, one of the tricks employed is to put the heaviest cars available on bridges in the attempt to use 'additional gravity' to keep the bridge piers anchored in the riverbed.

 

  BNSF used to park trains overnight on the bridge over the Big Sioux River at our city's focal point park.  It made for some neat photos, but the city fathers thought it detracted from the falls park, so now it's no longer done.

       I was at the park once, photographing some train cars on the bridge when Clifford Clavin was there impressing some of his friends with his railroad knowledge.  He told them that the railroad parks those cars there every night when there's a chance of rain, because otherwise rising water would take out the bridge.  Said bridge was built about 1909.  It has huge concrete column bases pinned to the solid bedrock that surrounds the falls.  I doubt that a nuclear bomb could take down the bridge.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 8:23 AM

No matter what actions mere mortals take to protect their structures, if Mom Nature sets her mind to it - she is still undefeated.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, December 14, 2015 10:29 PM

BaltACD
 
Semper Vaporo

CRANDIC had a similar problem with cars parked on a bridge over the Iowa river in Iowa City many years ago.  I remember seeing news videos showing them cutting through couplers using a torch on the end of an 8 or 10 ft. long pipe so the workman could be standing on the bridge and away from the cars as they came apart and fell into the river.

I understand they now have a rule that says no cars are to be stored on overpasses.

 

Yet when it comes to 'protection' against flooding river conditions, one of the tricks employed is to put the heaviest cars available on bridges in the attempt to use 'additional gravity' to keep the bridge piers anchored in the riverbed.

 

Yeah, that was what CRANDIC did in Cedar Rapids in 2008, trying to save an old bridge on the south side of town... it failed for two reasons... one is that the water got so high as to be pushing on the cars themselves and the other is because the piers were not sunk into the river bed, but were just large HOLLOW concrete boxes that were sitting atop the river bed and the bed on the downstream side washed out from the rapid flood water, allowing the piers to simply tip over.

U.P. was doing the same thing to their bridge on the north side of town above the dam.  It was nearly lost because of all the houseboats that came loose upstream and hit the RR bridge.  Most went under it and were shredded in the process.  It was feared that the large empty plastic drums that the houseboats were mounted on would get stuck under the bridge and lift it off the piers.

 

The incident I was refering to occurred several years before in Iowa City; the cars were just stopped on a bridge (as I understand it, it was a common practice to do so when the yard was full) and a wind blew them over the side.

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,221 posts
Posted by Euclid on Monday, December 14, 2015 10:11 PM
I wonder if the wind effect was mostly confined to the open area around the bridge, toppling those cars; and then those cars toppled the rest of them by twisting the couplers and toppling them in a domino style chain reaction. 
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 14, 2015 9:19 PM

Semper Vaporo

CRANDIC had a similar problem with cars parked on a bridge over the Iowa river in Iowa City many years ago.  I remember seeing news videos showing them cutting through couplers using a torch on the end of an 8 or 10 ft. long pipe so the workman could be standing on the bridge and away from the cars as they came apart and fell into the river.

I understand they now have a rule that says no cars are to be stored on overpasses.

Yet when it comes to 'protection' against flooding river conditions, one of the tricks employed is to put the heaviest cars available on bridges in the attempt to use 'additional gravity' to keep the bridge piers anchored in the riverbed.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, December 14, 2015 8:24 PM

CRANDIC had a similar problem with cars parked on a bridge over the Iowa river in Iowa City many years ago.  I remember seeing news videos showing them cutting through couplers using a torch on the end of an 8 or 10 ft. long pipe so the workman could be standing on the bridge and away from the cars as they came apart and fell into the river.

I understand they now have a rule that says no cars are to be stored on overpasses.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, December 14, 2015 6:11 PM

Several random thoughts.  Balt and MC chime in.

1.  Straight line winds are fickle.  Have been at location no winds but observed winds that blew down many items.

2.  If one of my trains has to stop for high winds stopping on an overpass does not seem a good idea.

3.  Some RRs have not learned the lesson SP learned on the Moffet route.

4.  If storing cars why not split the cars so they are not over a highway, river, creek, etc ? 

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,022 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 14, 2015 3:40 PM

Clearly, they failed the "roll test..."

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Monday, December 14, 2015 3:00 PM

Semper Vaporo

Why didn't the engineer drive the train down below the bridge for shelter?

Sarcasm, I hope.  No engineer (or locomotive) on a cut of stored standing cars.

I'd say that the 40mph wind estimate was probably a tad conservative.

Since three covered hoppers = one clipper ship in sail area, and those old windjammers could make 20 knots with a fair wind...

As for TDOT, time was that they controlled ALL transportation in the state - railroads in Texas were required to be Texas corporations.

Chuck

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Monday, December 14, 2015 1:48 PM

Most likely the operating company, A&NR ....who would be collecting the storage or demurage fees. (Not sure where an act of god occurance cuts off responsibilities)

http://www.anrrr.com/aboutanr.htm 

Thought International Paper was the fee owner. Curious to see how TxDOT became a player in this, unless it's for some spur or lead built for economic development purposes with a state grant...Or was the newsworker covering the story referring to the highway right-of-way easement or lease below the bridge and does not know the difference.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 7,968 posts
Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, December 14, 2015 12:20 PM

edblysard (12-13):

Who is financially responsible for cleaning up the freight cars mess, the A&NR Railroad or TxDOT?  The incident is out of my territory, but I would imagine A&NR is kind of a shortline operation that would hardly have the resources for such a big cleanup.

Take care,

K.P.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Monday, December 14, 2015 8:39 AM

ConfusedStanding derailment not caused by subgrade failure. Interesting.

Brand new covered hoppers.....break-in period is now over. Now officially broken.

Positive Twister Control failure?

FRA reportable?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Monday, December 14, 2015 5:15 AM

F-2 Tornado in North Harris county, so....

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 14, 2015 12:09 AM

edblysard

http://www.ktre.com/story/30734564/train-cars-blown-off-railroad-bridge-at-loop-287-w-in-lufkin

 

Wonder how they will blame the crew for this....

Cold front hit east Texas this morning with tornadoes.

I feature the winds were more substansual than the 40 MPH that was mentioned in the article!  

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Sunday, December 13, 2015 11:11 PM

Auntie Em! Auntie Em!Whisper

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, December 13, 2015 10:53 PM

Why didn't the engineer drive the train down below the bridge for shelter?

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Big wind, bigger mess.
Posted by edblysard on Sunday, December 13, 2015 10:39 PM

http://www.ktre.com/story/30734564/train-cars-blown-off-railroad-bridge-at-loop-287-w-in-lufkin

 

Wonder how they will blame the crew for this....

Cold front hit east Texas this morning with tornadoes.

23 17 46 11

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy