January 2016 Issue

[Convicted One]

CShaveRR

Should we be demanding equal time for route-signaling systems?

 

I was disappointed that route signaling was not a part of the article.

[K4sPRR]

dakotafred

 

Paul_D_North_Jr

Yet another cover and photo essay by Scott Lothes occupying pgs. 38 - 47 inclusive.

 

 

 

 

Another sausage stuffer. In a way, I regret the day TRAINS ever went to color printing. Who would stand for pages and pages of "pretty" photos in black and white?

 

The old TRAINS -- and I'm going waaaay back -- had a little personality. Sharp opinions, by editor, columnists and especially readers (in letters). Book reviews. Today's magazine is like spending a Sunday afternoon with your maiden aunt. The boring stories are too long and the interesting ones too short.

 

I've been a member of the TRAINS club for 55 years. I realize that sometimes members change more than the club, so I have no intention of quitting. Like everyone else, I need someplace to go. But a benefit of paying your dues is having the right to say what you think. And I second Paul North's objections in spades. 

 

 

 

The January issue had an article on the Gertrude Emma, the 118 year old restored Pullman car.  I do not understand why the editors did not insist on a photograph of the restored interior, lack of such left the reader hanging.  Like above, another afternoon with your maiden aunt and her inability to get the whole story.

[rrnut282]

M636C

.... Given that installing an LED head in an existing searchlight signal must be orders of magnitude cheaper tha replacing the signal with multi lamp heads (Victoria never had money to waste) I'm surprised that USA roads operating as commercial businesses haven't adopted LED replacement heads for searchlight signals. It is a little strange to see bright LED lamps shining from old searchlights where the black paint on the disc has faded to grey....

In my neck of the woods, those circa 100-yr old signal posts have faded to a nice shade of rust.  It made little sense to replace the head if it was going to be laying on the grade in a year or two later. 

[CShaveRR]

Should we be demanding equal time for route-signaling systems?  They cover more mainline mileage, I suspect.

[oltmannd]

Deggesty

However, on page 26 I am a bit puzzled by the illustrations of Approach Limited and Limited Clear--the same three head display is used for both aspects. Should not the Approach Limited have a yellow top head?

Yes.

Approach Limited is yellow over flashing green over red.  Limited Clear is red over flashing green over red.  

[dakotafred]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Yet another cover and photo essay by Scott Lothes occupying pgs. 38 - 47 inclusive.

 

Another sausage stuffer. In a way, I regret the day TRAINS ever went to color printing. Who would stand for pages and pages of "pretty" photos in black and white?

 

The old TRAINS -- and I'm going waaaay back -- had a little personality. Sharp opinions, by editor, columnists and especially readers (in letters). Book reviews. Today's magazine is like spending a Sunday afternoon with your maiden aunt. The boring stories are too long and the interesting ones too short.

 

I've been a member of the TRAINS club for 55 years. I realize that sometimes members change more than the club, so I have no intention of quitting. Like everyone else, I need someplace to go. But a benefit of paying your dues is having the right to say what you think. And I second Paul North's objections in spades. 

 

 

[M636C]

tree68

 

 

M636C

Given that installing an LED head in an existing searchlight signal must be orders of magnitude cheaper...

 

 

I'd opine that a single head capable of three colors would be a fair amount more expensive than an incandescent bulb and a few filters.  LED's are single color (unless there are multiple elements within each device).  So the head would have to be built using RYG LEDs, or in a matrix of single color LEDs.  

The savings is going to be in power and the longevity of the LEDs vs incandescents.

 

My estimate of savings was based on replacing the searchlight with a new multiple head single colour LED signal compared with substituting a multi colour LED in the existing housing. I understand from other threads that when PTC is introduced no mechanical signals (including the rotating disc on searchlight signals) will be allowed, so the option of replacing the existing bulb or mechanism doesn't apply (unless I've misunderstood something).

 

M636C

[tree68]

M636C

Given that installing an LED head in an existing searchlight signal must be orders of magnitude cheaper...

I'd opine that a single head capable of three colors would be a fair amount more expensive than an incandescent bulb and a few filters.  LED's are single color (unless there are multiple elements within each device).  So the head would have to be built using RYG LEDs, or in a matrix of single color LEDs.  

The savings is going to be in power and the longevity of the LEDs vs incandescents.

[jeffhergert]

I liked Fred Frailey's column.  Going by the reasoning that a few bad trips fortells the future, the UP is doomed.

Jeff

[M636C]

I found the signalling article to be interesting, but the description allowed for quite a lot of variation, presumably between different roads.

In Australia, the state of Victoria followed USA practice and used what was described as "speed signalling". This is fairly well descibed at:

http://vicsig.net/index.php?page=infrastructure&section=signalling

A couple of points could be made about Victoria...

The first is that Searchlight type signals are used with multi colour LED lamp heads, so we can expect that signals looking like searchlights will go on forever. Given that installing an LED head in an existing searchlight signal must be orders of magnitude cheaper tha replacing the signal with multi lamp heads (Victoria never had money to waste) I'm surprised that USA roads operating as commercial businesses haven't adopted LED replacement heads for searchlight signals. It is a little strange to see bright LED lamps shining from old searchlights where the black paint on the disc has faded to grey....

New South Wales was said to follow British ideas and their system is described as "route signalling" although they had a lot of searchlights on main lines that looked very American.

Here is the official standards for signalling in NSW.

http://www.asa.transport.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/asa/railcorp-legacy/disciplines/signals/esg-100.pdf

You will have to scroll down through some updates of specific requirements before getting to the standard itself called "ESG-100"

Not far into the standard is section 1.2:

1.2 Principle No. 1.2 - Numbering of Signals and Points and Provision of Identification Plates

This illustrates the principle as expressed above, odd numbers in one direction and even in the other.

On double track with sidings, the prefix M for main and S for siding is used and the number series is related to the area and not to a distance measure.

Note that all signals are numbered with identifying plates, not just automatic signals. Automatic signals are identified by staggered heads either side of the post. Signals that can be controlled or automatic have a letter A which can be illuminated when operating as automatic signal.

One thing of particular interest are the indicator or repeater signals installed ahead of signals that are obscured by bridges (for example).

In Victoria these are called "banner indicators" and consist of two squares on a post displaying a white LED bar which gives the indications of upper quadrant semaphore signals, horizontal for stop, 45 degrees for caution and vertical for clear. These just indicate the next signal and need not be stopped at, although indications other than clear should be observed in order to stop or slow at the next signal.

In NSW these are known as repeaters and have seven LED discs in a reversed "L" shape, displaying either four horizontal discs for stop and four vertical discs for clear.

So we now have fully LED semaphore signals....

M636C

 

[tree68]

Paul_D_North_Jr

My concern is that allocating so many of the magazine's pages to him decreases the opportunity for other photographers/ writers - who may be equally capable - to have their work published.

Still better than another RR magazine which has a a feature article by the same fellow every single issue...

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

I agree that the article and photos are good.  My concern is that allocating so many of the magazine's pages to him decreases the opportunity for other photographers/ writers - who may be equally capable - to have their work published.  Give somebody else a chance to grow their talent.    

- Paul North.   

[Electroliner 1935]

Sorry Paul but I found the the article very well done and enjoyed it. Nice photos that capture the valley and the trains therein. I don't envy what he went through to capture the shots. I'm quite content to stay in my warm home and enjoy the magazine.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Yet another cover and photo essay by Scott Lothes occupying pgs. 38 - 47 inclusive.  I know he's the Exec. Director (or some such high official rank) with the Kalmbach-sponsored Center for Railroad Photography (or similar).  But this is the 2nd or 3rd such feature in recent years.  Are there no other competent rail photographers out there ?  Who annointed him as the next Richard Steinheimer, Ted Benson, Ben Bachman, Blair Kooistra, Mel Patrick, J. J. Young, J. Parker Lamb, etc. ?

- Paul North.   

[jeffhergert]

Where the CNW placed CTC with reverse signalling in Iowa instead of noting track 1 or 2 they ended the signal with a different tenth of a mile designation.  For example, the eastward set of signals at about mp158.5 were 1584 and 1586.  For some older fixed signal installations (mostly approach signals to interlockings) along the ATC equipped double track where wayside signals had otherwise been removed, it seemed they started numbering from a central point.  Westbound signals ending in odd numbers and eastward ending in even numbers.  As I recall, the old signal numbers for the approach signals to the Kate Shelley High Bridge were 137 westward and 140 eastward.  When UP installed CTC and waysides, they used their standard numbering system reflecting mile post location.

I don't know if it's coincidence, but the system of odd or even signal numbers seemed to correspond to the same system that most railroads used for train numberings.  Odd for west or southward train, even for east or northward trains.  

Of all the signals shown on the chart on page 26, only Clear, Approach and Stop would work on the UP.  There are a couple of the other aspects used, but name and indication are different.

Since I don't know how CSX does things or the orientation of the picture, could the E denote eastward?  I only guess this since we have one signal number ending in an even number and the other in an odd number for the same direction.

Jeff    

[Deggesty]

I am enjoying my copy of the January 2016 issue, which came to me yesterday. Especially, I appreciate Brian Solomon's article on signals, which is quite advanced over the two articles that were published about sixty years ago.

However, on page 26 I am a bit puzzled by the illustrations of Approach Limited and Limited Clear--the same three head display is used for both aspects. Should not the Approach Limited have a yellow top head?

And, the description of signal numbers is, I believe, rather brief, for the number will also include the nearest odd tenth of the mile for outbound signals, the nearest even tenth of the mile for inbound signals, and the number of the track the signal controls where traffic may move in both directions in multiple track territory.

On page 28, I am puzzled by the numbering on the two permissive signals in the illustration. Depew is, obviously, more than 400 miles from New York City, and the fourth digit seems to be the track number, but I cannot decode the E.