QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C There was an infamous incident in Sydney when the Indian Pacific, operated by Australian National at that time, had been diverted via the Southern line (think a diversion of 400 miles) and was routed into Sydney via the "East Hils Line". To cross back to the normal route, the train had to cross via a tunnel under eight tracks at Redfern, the first station out from Sydney Terminal, which this crew had never done. Now the really bad news was that the signalman wasn't expecting a diverted express train (two 3000HP cab units and fourteen cars) and set the route up for a suburban electric train to go to Bondi Junction. This involved diverting the train to the right and through a tunnel, rather than to the left and through a tunnel. Remember that the train crew didn't know this route, but they had been told about a tunnel, so they entered the tunnel and reached their approximate destination, but in an underground station about fifty feet below the platform they were aiming for and suitable for only six of their fourteen cars. By this time, the crew were aware that something was wrong, but their radios didn't work in the underground section. Management had the train stopped at Martin Place, the first place with crossovers, cancelled the extensive underground service and replaced it with buses for the day while the train was broken up and brought out. I assume it was several hours late departing Sydney by the time they got it back out. This was the equivalent of an Amtrak train finding its way into the Chicago Subway! You can't rely on the interlockings being set correctly! Peter
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill mvlandsw: The signaling modifies the maximum authorized speed for the turnout? I find that difficult to believe. Don't you mean the signaling provides a maximum authorized speed for the diverging route based on track conditions ahead? I mean, almost ALL signaling will give a different indication over a turnout based on track conditions ahead. For instance, in most CTC installations with a bonded siding, if there's a train in the siding, the home signal gives a red over red, even if the switch is thrown for the siding. If the siding is clear but the switch on the other end is still normal, it gives a red over yellow. If the switch on the other end is reversed and there's nothing in the next main track block after the switch, in some (but not all) systems it will give a red over flashing yellow. If there are two blocks clear, it will give a red over green. However, a 25 mph turnout is always a 25 mph turnout -- the signaling doesn't change that in the slightest. The signaling sets the speed for the track conditions ahead, only. The railroads that except from this arrange the home signal to never give anything better than a red over yellow or red over flashing yellow, to set a speed for the diverging route. What CSX does, as I read their timetable and rule book, is set the maximum authorized speed for the diverging route signal indication to be the same speed as most of its turnouts will allow, and then it lists the turnouts that are a smaller frog number and thus slower, as exceptions. That's certainly permissible. I'm more used to western railroads, which take the extra safety step of listing every turnout speed in the timetable, separating the turnout speed (which is one thing) from the diverging route speed (which is another). That forces the train crew to pay more attention to learning the territory, in my opinion, rather than just what the signal indications mean.
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill Daniel: I think your sources have romaniticized the truth. From 1920-1940, before a man could sit on the right side of the cab, he had probably spent two to eight years on the left side of the cab, running the same territory. To get onto the right side of the cab on his own authority, he'd have been coached by an engineer for dozens if not hundreds of trips. By the time he pulled a throttle, he had seen that route more than 1,000 times, on average. I don't think he was unfamiliar with it at that point. On any line, the timetable governs. It contains all the permanent speed restrictions and the pertinent train handling information. The temporary speed restrictions are issued at the beginning of each tour of duty and he carries those. So he'll hardly be in the dark. It's irrelevant whether the line is signaled or not, as the signals do NOT grant permanent speed restrictions, and the engineer must prove he knows the indications on a written exam and on student trips before he can mark up. The signal indications are all in the rule book, so if he's really in doubt, he can look them up (another reason why the rule book is carried with you.) All turnout speeds are in the timetable. Speed signaling doesn't give you turnout speeds, it gives you track conditions. To return to the original question: 1. The engineer must have familiarization trips over a new territory, or a pilot. 2. In terminal areas, the yardmaster or dispatcher will tell you where to go -- you just don't drive blindly down the first track that's open to you. 3. Signals will not be granted to you and power switches will not be lined for you unless you're supposed to go that way (except in the very unusual case of error). 4. When in doubt, everyone goes slow.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
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