Fox River Grove Train VS School Bus 20 years later.

[wilmette2210]

Good Evening Today is the 20 year anniversary of the Metra train VS School Bus accident. This is a Dateline NBC story did a story about this accidenthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hly-A2XqLag how do you thinks the Engineer of this train must have felt? I would bet that his hart was in his throat when he saw the school bus. Discuss

[avonlea22]

I was not even familiar with this crash until you posted about it, but I have to wonder why the engineer didn't at least slow the train a little when he first noticed the bus. Instead, the train actually sped up, according to what I've read. In the case of a school bus, or even a tanker truck or similar, I don't think its safe to assume it's going to clear the tracks. I think it would be better to be safe than sorry.

[ChuckCobleigh]

avonlea22

I have to wonder why the engineer didn't at least slow the train a little when he first noticed the bus. Instead, the train actually sped up, according to what I've read.

The NTSB Report on the accident doesn't actually say that the train sped up beyond what would normally be done on the route.  What it says is that the throttle went from Run-8 to idle, two seconds later there was a service brake application and two-seconds after that the engineer big-holed the brakes (line pressure going from 77 PSIG to 11 PSIG).  At the throttle change service brake application, speed was 69 (track limit was 70), it had dropped to 67 when the engineer went into full emergency.  Five or six seconds elapsed, the speed dropped to 60 and the train hit the bus.  1,422 feet later, the cab car came to a stop.

So the clue here is that the engine was in Run-8 and the engineer was bringing the train to track speed.  Close to a half mile before the grade crossing, the train speed was 66.  When he realized about a thousand feet from the grade crossing that the schoolbus could be a problem, he took the throttle to idle and then did the two brake operations.  

I'm guessing that 18 years experience in train service probably explains why the engineer didn't big-hole the brakes at 2,300 feet.  Probably some of the folks here who have spent some considerable time in the right-hand seat can offer more specific illumination.

Or not.

[ricktrains4824]

I seem to remember a Trains article (possibly in the "In my own words" series?) where an engineer stated that the rule(s) they had to follow (at that particular time) were, specifically, to never do an emergency brake application until they actually hit (car, truck, person, etc....) whatever was in the way. 

Might still be similar now, as a lot of "close calls" occur everyday. One would think, that, if they did an emergency application for every "close call" they have, many more issues would occur, including delaying people (not just trains, but other cars/trucks/pedestrians), many more broken coupler knuckles, and, possibly, more derailments. (Yes, I am aware of a few that were caused by an emergency application.) 

So, waiting as long as he did, to me, makes perfect sense. He did not unnecessarily put his passengers in danger of a possible bigger issue, but, when it was apperant that there was going to be a collision, he did what he could to try to lessen the possible damage by doing an emergency application, thereby slowing the train as much as he could in the very little time he had to react. Even though the train always wins, (train wins, makes it through in one piece with no damage to anyone because car/truck/pedestrian made it across, though too close for comfort, train wins because it got there first and the car/truck/pedestrian got smart and waited their turn, tie always goes to the train because it receives less damage/injury, so, even when they don't get to the crossing first, the train is still the winner.) there were no winners in this incident, or any like it.

[BaltACD]

Trains operating at track speed on either signal indication or Track Warrent Authority ARE NOT line of sight vehicles.  Do not make the mistake of thinking that they are just like driving your car.  They are nothing like it.

[schlimm]

The Fox River grove tragedy was complicated.  The engineer was definitely not at fault.  The crossing gates went down on average ~24 seconds before trains entered the crossing and were operating. The bus driver was not to blame. The problem was the lack of coordination of the traffic signals so that the bus got trapped.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Another issue was the short distance between the grade crossing and the intersection.  Northwest Highway had been widened a few years prior to the accident and ALL of the extra right-of-way needed for the widening was on the side of the road nearer the tracks.  This was apparently done to avoid affecting the businesses on the other side.  Consequently, anything much longer than an automobile could not clear the tracks when stopped at the traffic light.

[Euclid]

I cannot verify whether this is true, but at one point it was reported that the bus driver was not blocked by anything except the red traffic light, and kids in the back of the bus were screaming to move ahead because a train was coming. 

[ChuckCobleigh]

Euclid

I cannot verify whether this is true, but at one point it was reported that the bus driver was not blocked by anything except the red traffic light, and kids in the back of the bus were screaming to move ahead because a train was coming. 

 

According to the report, the driver misinterpreted the back end kids' yelling. From the report at page 46:

 

"As more passengers became aware of the approaching train and began yelling, the noise level in the bus increased and caught the attention of the busdriver and passengers up front, who did not initially grasp what those yelling were attempting to convey. The busdriver looked in the rearview mirror at this time; hence, the increased sound likely had the unintended consequence of distracting her attention from the traffic signal, which displayed the green indication for 2 to 6 seconds before the collision."

[rdamon]

I had to look back at the report, but that is true Euclid.

NTSB_Report