QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Futuremodal-After botched railroad mergers and mergers between shippers there are so few captive shippers left the railroads should be willing to trade open access for sizeable capital infusions. One way to earn your cost of capital is to lower the cost with cheap federal money.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal If you take a look at the freeway designs connected to the major U.S. cities, you will see that nearly all have the primary interstate routed directly into the heart of the city. Only a few such as Pittsburg PA and Des Moines IA have the major freeways routed around the cities, with spurs into the business districts. When you research as to why this occurred, nearly all articles will mention something to the effect of city leaders demanding that the primary interstate go right into the heart of the city...
QUOTE: I have yet to hear from anyone who can argue as to why it is justifiable for all other transportation modes have some form of open access, except railroads.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe I received my Trains magazine yesterday, and--of course--read Mark's article regarding "subsidies for all or subsidies for none," to paraphrase.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal [It is also of note that if the rail grid were to be built today from scratch, most railroad companies would opt to place terminals and stations on the outskirts of major cities, letting trucks handle final delivery to the business districts. The only exception to this would be if port facilities were in close approximation to the business districts.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod Don't forget -- 1) The Bob Moses parkway construction was largely financed initially via Triborough Bridge Authority revenue, 2) Explicitly tied to this method of funding: no "commercial" traffic on Moses parkways -- e.g. no dangerous and pavement-wrecking trucks, and no buses for the hoi... note that bridges were intentionally constructed with inadequate clearance for trucks and buses to ensure the 'ban' would continue even if a later political administration went back on the idea. 3) Later Port Authority funding of the assorted Hudson crossings made Triborough revenue look a bit sick by comparison... but instead of lots of roads, we got the World Trade Center instead. I'm tempted to note, however, that if engineers had a free hand planning highway systems, we might well wind up with more, not less, concrete linguini. (Witness the Cross Bronx Expressway, which has needed either to be substantially widened or multiple-decked for over 30 years -- engineers would never tolerate a road of its current characteristics and capacity in a critical network. Reasons why it has *not* been substantially expanded are interesting to review...) Might have been interesting to see what Moses et al. would have done in the absence of the Federal Interstate Highway program, the Highway Trust Fund, etc. My guess is that the market for railroad freight both through the New York area and to many of the terminals in that region would have been much improved, simply because trucking would have been restricted. I dimly remember, when only a couple of years old, the parade of trucks up Amsterdam Avenue in the middle of the night... part of one of the old major arteries through New York City to New England and points north!
QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered [I did study urban planning back in the 80's and interned with the city of New Haven. (How I ended up being a cop in Alabama is a long story.) What glorious, idealistic days of yore they were! I could draw and submit plans revitalizing neighborhoods, widening roads... even changing zoning if I felt like it. The problem came in when the people who actually lived in those neighborhoods caught wind of these wonderful plans. The hard lesson I learned from that eventful six month stint was that government is going to respond to what the taxpayer wants, which is not neccessarily common sense. Erik
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard "The cause of highway congestion is simply political malfeasance. If engineers were allowed to plan transportation systems and infrastructure development free of political input, there would be no such thing as choke points or congestion." If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.... Since when has any goverment handed a blank check, with no strings attached, to any one? Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain Haven't read the article. Is congestion necessarily "bad"?
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QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe If conditions stay the way they are now, I think Mark's contention is unassailable. However, I have seen growing evidence that highway congestion is approaching "the knee of the curve" with regard to how much is required to be spent in order to keep highway congestion at a minimum. In other words, even if the government continues to subsidize truckers through highway construction, the cost of doing so is going to start growing, causing highway taxes to increase and causing a less-favorable environment for trucking. It is no longer simply a matter of building new highways. There are growing choke points, which either preclude further highway construction or cause it to be considerably more expensive to do so#8212;there are only so many highways you can build in a city. Gabe When the new container terminal was built at Long Beach CA about 25 years ago, It was built to be served by trucks, not trains. The trucks haul the containers through on one of the most congested freeway systems in the world between the ships and rail[V] I'm a highway guy but this decision was DUMB[:(]
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe If conditions stay the way they are now, I think Mark's contention is unassailable. However, I have seen growing evidence that highway congestion is approaching "the knee of the curve" with regard to how much is required to be spent in order to keep highway congestion at a minimum. In other words, even if the government continues to subsidize truckers through highway construction, the cost of doing so is going to start growing, causing highway taxes to increase and causing a less-favorable environment for trucking. It is no longer simply a matter of building new highways. There are growing choke points, which either preclude further highway construction or cause it to be considerably more expensive to do so#8212;there are only so many highways you can build in a city. Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear That *&^%$#@! Post Office!! No longer uses rail effectively, wants to raise postal rates to $0.41 for a first class stamp AND NO TRAINS Magazine, again!! LC
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe If conditions stay the way they are now, I think Mark's contention is unassailable. However, I have seen growing evidence that highway congestion is approaching "the knee of the curve" with regard to how much is required to be spent in order to keep highway congestion at a minimum. In other words, even if the government continues to subsidize truckers through highway construction, the cost of doing so is going to start growing, causing highway taxes to increase and causing a less-favorable environment for trucking. It is no longer simply a matter of building new highways. There are growing choke points, which either preclude further highway construction or cause it to be considerably more expensive to do so—there are only so many highways you can build in a city. Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Can't really comment until I get a chance to read his article, but knowing Mark's attitude toward people who have the audacity to actually drive to work for a living.......
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
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