Snoozing on the locomotive

[Mookie]

I am sitting on a locomotive in anywhere USA. I am the engineer (run for your life)

I have caught a red signal and have to sit and wait for it to change, which, so far, has been about 30 min. I can "nap" sitting straight up ( in reality, too) so what will wake me when it is time to go? (Conductor either off engine somewhere or maybe napping also. )

Does the radio announce that it is ok for me to go as well as a signal change?

Is there ever a time when you just sit and watch the signal and the only indication to go is when it changes to "proceed"?

Moo

[Anonymous]

You can sit at that signal for eight hours. Just staring at the light. You either have the good fortune of waking up to see the indication has changed, or the ill fortune of having the trainmaster come on board to see why you're not moving yet.
Mitch

[zardoz]

A good dispatcher will (if he has the time) call the train to inform them to "watch for the light" or words to that effect.

When waiting for a signal for a meet, you will hear and/or feel the other train go by, so that should wake you, which can be rather startling if you have really nodded off into a deep sleep.

Before it was legal to nap while waiting, I used to make a deal with the conductor: he could nap while we were moving, but when we had to wait, it was MY turn to nap, and he had to stay awake. A few times when I made that arrangement, I would wake by myself and see a proceed indication, and see the conductor still sleeping. He got no more sleep that trip!

More than once I was 'out like a light' while waiting for a train we were meeting. I was awakened by the incredibly loud (as compared to the gentle idle of my locomotive) sound and rush of air from a passing train. The passing train causes sufficient ground movement that on an idleing locomotive it feels as though WE are moving, and the movement of this train passing at 50mph just two feet from your window dominates your attention when coming out of a sound sleep.


"I woke to the noise and commotion, felt the ground vibrating, saw a train passing my train, it's length stretched across the siding switch, looked up and saw the red signal just a few hundred feet ahead, and was so startled into wakefulness that I panicked thinking that I was still moving towards the end of the siding and was going to crash into the side of the passing train, that my first action was to put my train into emergency. The conductor had also been asleep, so he shared my sense of ungency, and was heading out the door. After we were fully awake and realized what reality was, we overcame our mutual embarrassment and continued on our way. But after that, we had many funny moments when we would remind each other of our episode."

[Anonymous]

Many years ago I had the same experience as Zardox: (waking up, seeing a stop signal staring me in the face, and instinctively placing the automatic brake valve in EMERGANCY position)
This caused me to remember some advice an older engineer once gave me: "If you go to sleep in the middle of the night when stopped at a red signal, REMOVE the REVERSER HANDLE, and put it somewhere where you can't do any harm with it".
If you hide the revereser handle from yourself in your pocket or an electrical compartment, those few extra seconds it takes to "find" the handle can be enough time for you to gain enough consciousness to NOT inadvertantly start moving your train past a red signal into the side of an opposing train .

[railman]

these are very interesting stories.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Penn Central Black

Many years ago I had the same experience as Zardox: (waking up, seeing a stop signal staring me in the face, and instinctively placing the automatic brake valve in EMERGANCY position)
This caused me to remember some advice an older engineer once gave me: "If you go to sleep in the middle of the night when stopped at a red signal, REMOVE the REVERSER HANDLE, and put it somewhere where you can't do any harm with it".
If you hide the revereser handle from yourself in your pocket or an electrical compartment, those few extra seconds it takes to "find" the handle can be enough time for you to gain enough consciousness to NOT inadvertantly start moving your train past a red signal into the side of an opposing train .

That's a good idea, I never would have thought about that one. [:)]

[JoeKoh]

with todays technology the engineer has to hit the alerter button every 45 seconds or so now?
stay safe
Joe

[ValleyX]

When the independent brake is fully applied, it annulls the reset feature for the engineer.

As for sleeping, better not get caught. Some railroads now have a napping policy in place, others take the position that a little nap makes one more groggy than they otherwise would be and napping in any form is prohibited.

Z, that's a good story, and believe me, it's happened to more than one guy. And, some conductors just can't be trusted.

[Mookie]

Ok - when you are in the middle of nowhere and your whole crew of 1 other is dead to the world, whose to know? Surely no one is going run out to the engine and check! And it should be a foregone conclusion that you nap with your ears properly tuned to any noise.....or maybe that is a "mother's thing". Sleep through a tornado, but the baby passes gas and Mom is awake!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ok - when you are in the middle of nowhere and your whole crew of 1 other is dead to the world, whose to know? Surely no one is going run out to the engine and check! And it should be a foregone conclusion that you nap with your ears properly tuned to any noise.....or maybe that is a "mother's thing". Sleep through a tornado, but the baby passes gas and Mom is awake!

The railway is like that all-'round mook.

You're supposed to wear your high-vis, but when you're on the road there usually isn't anyone out there to remind you to put it on.

On most railways you're supposed to be wearing safety glasses, but in most cases there is nobody looking over your shoulder telling you to put them on.

You're not supposed to move cars with handbrakes applied, and you're supposed to test the handbrake before you ride it. Most of the time there's nobody looking over your shoulder telling you to do those.

In most cases running trades employees are left on their own with very little supervision, it's assumed, to an extent, that everyone plays by the rules.

Of course I say "most cases" because you really never know when one of those road supervisors or yardmasters are looking over your shoulder. [}:)]

[Mookie]

Ok - I digress a little from the original thought. But I think I found out what I wanted - you are responsible in some cases for watching the signal and going when it changes. Other times, you get a little help from a radio.

Seems like they should have a set up where the radio always alerts you to the fact that you can now proceed. They can talk to the moon, surely they could talk to some poor train crew in the middle of nowhere Nebraska?

[ValleyX]

True, Macguy, and what Mookie says is true, too. When you have an ear attuned to the unusual, the radio, vibrations, loud noises, shifts in the wind, whatever, all helps to keep ones' alertness level from falling off the scale. But lets just say that not all have that "motherly" instinct. And, even though you're out in the middle of nowhere, you never know for sure that you're all alone.

[Anonymous]

You've brought up an interesting thought, mook.

In CROR there is a rule thgat states using the Radio to give advance information pertaining to a fixed signal is not allowed.

The word for word rule is -

126. RESTRICTED USE OF RADIO
In addition to the restrictions in Rules 14 and 602, radio must not be used to;

(i) give advance information with respect to the indication of a fixed signal; or

(ii) give information which may influence a crew to consider that speed restrictions are diminished.


Now in this case would it be considered that you are giving advanced notice?

I suppose even if the message said "signal number 466 has changed" you would still be in violation of ii, because they are obviously waiting at a stop signal so if the message were to be sent off that "the signal has been changed" then any signal change would be less restrictive than stop and you would be in violation because the speed restrictions are diminished.

Not sure if this rule is used in the states or not.

[jrw249]

Most informative guys (and girls).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Penn Central Black

Many years ago I had the same experience as Zardox: (waking up, seeing a stop signal staring me in the face, and instinctively placing the automatic brake valve in EMERGANCY position)
This caused me to remember some advice an older engineer once gave me: "If you go to sleep in the middle of the night when stopped at a red signal, REMOVE the REVERSER HANDLE, and put it somewhere where you can't do any harm with it".
If you hide the revereser handle from yourself in your pocket or an electrical compartment, those few extra seconds it takes to "find" the handle can be enough time for you to gain enough consciousness to NOT inadvertantly start moving your train past a red signal into the side of an opposing train .

Guess I've just been lucky to not have this happen to me yet. Good idea with the reverser.

LC

[Anonymous]

On the CP, the rules allow for a 45 minute nap as long as one crewman remains alert. The rule also specifies that the alert person cannot be a student conductor. It is common for the dispatcher to let the train know when a clear signal is comming up. The situation is as follows: The train is told to stop short of a red signal because by pulling up to the signal, crossings would be blocked. The conductor lets the dispatcher know that the signal is out of view and requests a call when time to approach the signal.

[Mookie]

CP seems to have a good idea. Kind of a wake up call in your motel/hotel room. It just seems to me that since it is hard for the human body to stay awake, especially in the dark just before dawn, they could put into place something that might help the crew rest a short time and still not miss a signal.

2nd question - how big is this "reverser"? Is it something small like an old church key or larger like a crowbar?

Moo

[zardoz]

Mook,

The reverser is about 6" long. When Metra was receiving new locomotives, the reverser that came with them was solid metal and was quite heavy. The ones I remember mostly using had a plastic handle covering a steel shaft. I do remember seeing a few that were all plastic; those were great to carry an extra one in your grip. And they were great for when one worked as a hostler, you just carried around a reverser for each type of locomotive. I remember at one time having four of the plastic ones, one for each type of control stand the CNW had.

[rrnut282]

I'm not sure how big an old church key is, but for the most models, the reverser is smaller than a crowbar. It's in the range of 1" diameter and roughly 8" long. One end is blank, and the other has a metal "clip and slot arrangement" that is used engage it to the control stand. The engineers around here can give you more specific dimensions. (I type too slow, Zardoz beat me to it)

[Mookie]

See - the old people on here will know what a church key is and the younger set will now wonder what it is! [^]

And you answered my next question - a different one for each type of locomotive!

Thank you!

Mook

[dehusman]

Actually on modern locomotives used on class 1's today the reverser is universal. The material and design of the handles may be different.

Dave H.

[rrnut282]

I haven't been called young in quite a while, thanks Mookie.

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Penn Central Black

Many years ago I had the same experience as Zardox: (waking up, seeing a stop signal staring me in the face, and instinctively placing the automatic brake valve in EMERGANCY position)
This caused me to remember some advice an older engineer once gave me: "If you go to sleep in the middle of the night when stopped at a red signal, REMOVE the REVERSER HANDLE, and put it somewhere where you can't do any harm with it".
If you hide the revereser handle from yourself in your pocket or an electrical compartment, those few extra seconds it takes to "find" the handle can be enough time for you to gain enough consciousness to NOT inadvertantly start moving your train past a red signal into the side of an opposing train .

Is the reverser handle below the throttle in a locomotive(ES40DC) or where is it for that matter in any locomotive?

[ValleyX]

Seems to me like making a habit of centering the reverser every time you stop would help, too, to prevent you from making a big error. You could be looking for the reverser after you'd already knocked off the independent and roll through the signal. But that's just me.

The reverser is below the throttle or throttles and to the left of the throttle on desktop controls. Desktop controls usually have one throttle for both power and dynamic brake operation, whereas most conventional control stands have two throttles, one for power and one for dynamic brake.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Actually on modern locomotives used on class 1's today the reverser is universal. The material and design of the handles may be different.

Dave H.

At one time, there was a different design for each locomotive builder, and some builders used different styles over the years. The old GP7 & 9's had a drum-style throttle stand that used a completely different style than the high-HP units.

Alco, GE, Fairbanks-Morse, and EMD all had completely different types. Although they did not vary as much as the multitude of automatic / independent / MU2A valve combinations there used to be.

[ValleyX]

Used to have to look for that MU2A valve sometimes, stuck in a little door on the floor behind the console, taking a good look at it to make sure you'd set it correctly. And some of those control stands, uh, rope with a handle on it to blow the whistle, search for the headlight switch, and then there were the good ol' 24 and 6 brakevalves. Stuff I hadn't thought about for awhile, Z.

[Mookie]

So when you get on the engine, the reverser is already there? And if it is missing and you are not "carrying"?

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrnut282

I haven't been called young in quite a while, thanks Mookie.

You are welcome! So you don't know what a "church key" is?

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

So when you get on the engine, the reverser is already there? And if it is missing and you are not "carrying"?

If there is not one on any other unit around, you are rather S.O.L. There is a way to 'bypass' a reverser, but for interests of security, I shall not mention it here.

[ValleyX]

Never seen that done, Z, NEVER, and it's not like I hired out yesterday. Interesting.