Watched a loaded unit coal train with 2 engines - leaving Lincoln and headed east. Looked like a normal coal train (MAXX- Midamerican Energy Co) and could see 2 DPU's coming up, usually signaling the end. I don't count cars as a general rule, but the time it took to leave town was about normal for 110-130 car coal train.
The 2 DPU's turned out to be not the end, but the last 1/3 of the train. Behind those DPU's were rental gons. Then 2 more DPU's and it was gone.
I have seen a mid-train engine go thru here, but never a total of 6 units and never 2 not even mid-train, but looking just like a short add on. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but just never on my watch.
Is this a "normal" coal train headed somewhere where it needs the extra power or is it what it looked like - a regular train taking a shorter one along and dropping it some place along the way?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Question too hard? Oops, I keep forgetting we have so few working railroaders on here that they are stretched pretty thin....and we used to have so many....
I am just curious if a mid-train engine is always in mid-train. That seems pretty easy to me. Or do they ever send a short train w/a long one that is going pretty much the same place and just drop off the 2nd one along the way.
Can't speak to UP practices. Sounds like a reasonable way to move two trains when there are only crews available to move one.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
23 17 46 11
Gentlemen - thank you!
Mooks : JeffH would be your answer-man. Question would be the length of the train and how involved the flatlanders get with RCE vs DPU. Mid train units could be set up to be air repeater cars and nothing else.
Mud - I was hoping Jeff would see this since he works so close to Lincoln - but he might be a little busy. I did notice that all 6 units were working, but since Lincoln sits in a bowl, they would have a grade in all directions. So maybe the extra power was needed, at least for awhile.
Lately, we are seeing differences from even last year, so will have more questions, I am sure.
Mookie, is that the Cornhusking Bowl?
Johnny
I'm sorry I'm late. I did see this, but I don't have a definitive answer. I'm assuming it's BNSF and sometimes it's hard enough trying to keep up with what the UP is doing.
It sounds like either two trains combined or possibly experimenting with how much coal a single plant could take at once using rented cars to fill out the length. (Again I'm assuming they were coal gons.) I'd probably lean towards the combined train theory.
I've heard, but can't confirm, the UP has combined coal trains before. They were ones headed towards KC, so didn't come my way. Kansas suppoesedly was concerned with the length (blocking crossings, etc) that they split them at the first crew change point in Kansas. It may have been experimental as every so often they have combined two empty hopper trains returning to the mines. This was before DP became common and one train got 4 knuckles. The fourth one while putting the train back togther from the other separations.
Jeff
PS. Since it's Mid-American, if they were trying to move a bigger train to their Fruitland, IA (west of Muscatine, IA) plant, they would need all that power. At Ottumwa it goes to the CP (ex MILW) and there is a heavy grade out of town going east. (Rutledge hill) I believe normally they receive 135 car trains. We used to have this business via Clinton, but Uncle Warren wants to keep it in the family. I've heard they started adding extra power to the trains or else they have to double or triple the hill. In flat Iowa, that is.
Jeff et al: they were loaded coal gons. It is BNSF, since UP only does local switching here in town. I am really surprised that they would put 2 trains together. I think it is a great idea (if that is what they were doing) but just never thought they would actually put that long of a train together.
So many more questions, but with this information, I will study this a little more.
Happy me!
Mookie ..... Lincoln sits in a bowl, they would have a grade in all directions. So maybe the extra power was needed, at least for awhile.
..... Lincoln sits in a bowl, they would have a grade in all directions. So maybe the extra power was needed, at least for awhile.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Mookie ..... Lincoln sits in a bowl, they would have a grade in all directions. So maybe the extra power was needed, at least for awhile. I'll admit to only being in Lincoln once, about 25 years ago, but I don't recall having to put the ol' covered wagon into Granny Gear to climb out of the bowl. What kind of grades are we talking about here? Where can I get one of those Ski Nebraska T-shirts?
I'll admit to only being in Lincoln once, about 25 years ago, but I don't recall having to put the ol' covered wagon into Granny Gear to climb out of the bowl. What kind of grades are we talking about here? Where can I get one of those Ski Nebraska T-shirts?
When it comes to railroads and grades - all things are relative. While in a car you may not have to use 'granny gear' to traverse the territory - your car is not loaded to it's maximum hauling tonnage.
Railroads routinely load their trains to the maximum tonnage their locomotive consist can handle - when those trains meet their ruling grade, even if it is less than 1/2 percent (6 inches rise per 100 feet[a grade that is difficult to visually register]) it is real work to get those trains over those grades.
Deggesty Mookie, is that the Cornhusking Bowl?
The bowl is only noticeable if you get out of town and can look back at the city. Or watch the trains coming in and out of the east yard. They definitely show a grade.
Mookie The bowl is only noticeable if you get out of town and can look back at the city. Or watch the trains coming in and out of the east yard. They definitely show a grade.
Thank you for the reply. I am noticing a lot of different things going in and out of our yard lately, so it is good to hear that others are seeing them, too.
jeffhergert PS. Since it's Mid-American, if they were trying to move a bigger train to their Fruitland, IA (west of Muscatine, IA) plant, they would need all that power. At Ottumwa it goes to the CP (ex MILW) and there is a heavy grade out of town going east. (Rutledge hill) I believe normally they receive 135 car trains. We used to have this business via Clinton, but Uncle Warren wants to keep it in the family. I've heard they started adding extra power to the trains or else they have to double or triple the hill. In flat Iowa, that is.
This is exactly it. These trains are powered to climb out of the Des Moines River valley at Ottumwa on CP. 6 units, with midtrain DP. The train also has to be powered to reverse direction after being interchanged to CP at Ottumwa.
Mark Meyer
If the power from the second train is tied on to the back of the DPU on the first train, does that new power act like the DPU power and flollow the same commands from the front end?
It can but dosnt have to, depends how you set it up.
Murphy Siding If the power from the second train is tied on to the back of the DPU on the first train, does that new power act like the DPU power and flollow the same commands from the front end?
FYI - In most cases, mid-train generally means two thirds of the way back in the train, not halfway. (To balance the drawbar forces/ reduce the chance of a pull-apart.)
See how much i have learned! UP used to service MAXX, locomotives mid-train or 2/3rds back (I kept thinking middle) and I now know why, Iowa isn't flat - this was a tough one for me. UP and now BNSF have run extra long trains!
As Houston Ed & Mudchicken can attest - I am really interested and don't ask questions lightly. Nice to know there are still a few people on the forum that can answer them.
Jen
The suggestion that this might be two trains in one reminds me of an NYC practice in 1967 (?).
SV-7 arrived at Collinwood Yard (Cleveland, OH) with 3 to 5 GP-40s on the point, Flexi-Van cars for Chicago, a "fully serviced" caboose, Flexi-Van cars for the Big Four (Columbus, Cincinnati, St Louis ?), and another caboose. A new crew took the power, the Chicago cars, and that first caboose west. Another crew added power and a few more Flexi-Van cars to what was left of SV-7 and took it south (diverging at Berea, OH) as SV-9.
ChuckAllen, TX
All the UP coal trains I've seen, including those that went to Mid-American, had one remote DP at the rear. One coal train we have sometimes runs 150 cars and the DP is still at the end. Mid-train DPs are more common on intermodals and manifests. A few even get a mid train and rear end DP. The lead consist can control up to four remote consists.
I watched a MAXX train leave - (east) this morning. Roughly 133 cars of coal. As I was roughly counting, I noticed the first 80 had their rotational end (red) on the right. The rest of the train had the rotational end on the left. Pretty clever - if my thinking is right and this was actually 2 trains put together. Had headend and dpu power but no engines "mid train".
I love it when questions become "reasonable".
133 cars is the right size for most coal trains. I remember when the UP had the Mid-American contract for the Fruitland and Bettendorf plants that was within the average train size. They may have just rearranged some of their train sets.
I'm guessing the cars were true bottom-dump hoppers as opposed to rotary dump only coal gondolas. The plant they are going to probably doesn't have a rotary dumper, so if part of the train is orientated differently it doesn't matter.
If you did send a train that was half and half through a rotary dumper, would you be able to dump all the cars, except one where the two parts meet?
Murphy Siding If you did send a train that was half and half through a rotary dumper, would you be able to dump all the cars, except one where the two parts meet?
That would depend on whether that point consisted of two fixed couplers, or two rotary couplers.
There's probably a rule/standard practice that says two rotaries can't be coupled, but you never know.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Yes, but you have to have two rotary ends facing each other at that point, and it is not un-common as that allows solid non rotary couplers to always be facing the locomotive.
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