YAWN! "We need more sleep."

[Anonymous]

I'm curious, when you guys go to work for the railroad do you know there's a possibility you're not going to get enough rest. Do they tell you, or is it just understood?

m

[Anonymous]

I remember in the early '80s on the Milwaukee Road, a form of mileage cap was proposed. One of the vociferous decenters declared,"That's the difference between butter and margerine on my kids' dinner table!"

Once, when I was on the South Shore, I was called for the first engineers' job in the morning. It was on a Saturday and the job went to work at 4am. On our way back to the Shops the dispatcher radioed me to tell me he didn't have anyone for the last job that night, and I'd have to go. We tied up on the first job at 11.25 am. I stood to go to work at 7.35pm that evening. All through the day I tried to sleep. But it was a hot summer day and the sunlight was bright. Kids were playing outside and there was the sound of tow-trucks removing the illegaly parked cars of the "Fips" that came to use our beach. I still had the fatigue shakes at 6pm. I called the trainmaster to advise him of my situation. The evening assignment left Michigan City at 7.40pm, went to the Bend, and turned to go to Chicago at 8.40pm with an arrival at Chicago at 10pm. The assignment then returned to Michigan city on the 12.45am departure with a tie-up at 2.30am, having me awake for a full 24 hours. The trainmaster's remark was, "The book says your rested." I had to run with the cab door open, and I had to stand up most of the time to stay awake. It was awfull.
And there you have it.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

Wow, I assumed that most people had it the same as it was up here in Canada.

I suppose the Labour Agreements up here are just more favorable towards quality of life. (Booking Rest and Maximum Miles).

It's not uncommon to hear a RTE booking 15 or 20 hours of rest after a tour of duty.
And once the RTE has reached maximum miles they are no longer allowed to work for that period of time until their milage re-sets to zero.

I suppose under this agreement it is only possible to make a certain amount of money, but the quality of life is there and there is generally more work to go around for everyone else, no milage hogs.

[Anonymous]

Not familiar with the concept of "Booking" rest. Not in the labor agreements here I guess. Also, no, there is no maximum number of miles.

There are quite a few employees who are really in it for the money and have and will fight any new procedure that will interfere with their being able to earn the maximum amount of cash. No matter the cost. After all, it is the other guy who gets fatigued...

LC

[jeffhergert]

On the portion of the UP I work, Conductors can book 8 or 10 hrs undisturbed anytime except on deadheads. Engineers can only book 8 or 10 hrs undisturbed when they work over 8 hours. If engineers are on duty for 12 hrs or more, they can get 12 hrs undisturbed. This doesn't apply to all of the UP. It all depends on the labor agreements in effect at various locations.
Jeff

[dehusman]

The labor agreements in the US do not generally allow "booking" rest. Under certain circumstances a crew can tie up for "undisturbed rest" in which case they can't be called for duty until fully rested. So if the crew has a two hour call (notification period), works less than 12 hrs and ties up for undisturbed rest at 1pm then they can't be put back on duty until 11pm that night (8 hrs rest and 2 hrs call).

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

I was listening to the scanner a while back, and a crew stopped in Weimar (about 70 miles east of San Antonio) wasn't picked up by the limo to take them home to SA. The only way the problem was solved was to have the next train from Houston pick them up and let them ride deadhead on into San Antonio. The train wouldn't get to them in at least two hours, then the long ride to SA on top of that. They were pretty po'd. One of them even commented that "so much for the company saying they're family oriented." So I wonder if these poor guys had to turn around and run back to Houston the next day. Now that I think about it, it seems like a lot of the chatter on the scanner is guys who wonder why their ride home hasn't arrived.

m

[Anonymous]

This seems to be quite an issue down in the states.

Do crews not have the option of booking rest in the sates?

Here in Canada, as soon as a road employee is finished a tour of duty, they have the option of booking rest.

It actually seems quite rare that they wouldn't book rest.

Most guys will book a good 10 hours on top of their mandatory 8 and have a good rest at home.

Are there a maximum number of miles that running trades employees can log in a month?
I know the max here (at CP Rail) is a Union agreement that RTE's can't run more than something like 3800 miles in a month, so once you log those miles you are off for the month.

It seems that the RTEs have it a little easier up here in Canada.

[Anonymous]

I found this article on the web and I'm sure sleep deprivation is not just limited to the UP's San Antonio crews.

--------------------------------ARTICLE---------------------------------------------------------

"UP engineers: 'We struggle to stay awake'"
(The following column by San Antonio Express-News columnist Ken Rodriguez, "Union Pacific engineers: 'We struggle to stay awake'", appeared Nov. 21, 2004)
Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents, and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two, three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'" the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits. "It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads: "At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down, they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12 consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls asleep and gets someone killed.

(To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail [e-mail]. His column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.)

------------------------------------END OF ARTICLE--------------------------------------------

I don't know about the rest of you, but staying awake at 3am no matter how much sleep I get is difficult. I just don't think it's natural for people to be awake during the middle of the night. Granted, people have been working nights for a very long time, I just find that I tend to nod off a little around the wee hours of the morning. Of course, if my engineer is also having trouble staying awake I try to strike up conversation or something to keep the both of us alert. Some nod off more quickly than others, but it's common everywhere in my opinion.
At my terminal the engineers return home first or second out knowing they'll be out on their rest. Of course here they can claim 10 hours undisturbed rest giving them 12 hours off. There is a movement right now to get off days assigned on the freight pools here. Some don't want it because the off days will dig into the hours they can work while others would love the time off.
There were stretches of weeks where I had little time off and I remember waking up at home in my bed thinking I had fallen asleep on a train. I woke up in my own bed haunted by the thought of sleeping while my engineer struggles to stay awake or is sleeping himself. There are several conductors that have the reputation of sleeping the entire trip, I just don't know how they could be that complacent about safety and putting everything on the engineer. I've had several engineers tell me they had enough of conductors of that sort and have resorted to throwing fire crackers under their chairs to wake them up or just plain yell at them and make them call signals or something. Anyone have similar experiences or comments? Please share. [:D]