The Control on the Right or Left --Why??

[jeffhergert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I did not say the USA railroads run right handed because of where the signals are. I meant to say that with right-hand running in place, which has been historically the USA practice except for the Chicago and Northwestern, it then makes sense to put signals on the right and since the signals are on the right, so is the engineer. OK?

Anyone know the answers as how the ex-C&NW main line is run today by the UP? Still left hand on double track? Did the C&NW have left side signals and left controls on any locos?

The trains still run on the left hand side on the ex-CNW that is only signalled for one direction. Even in CTC, where signalled for movement in either direction on either track, most traffic is usually kept to the left except when running around or being run around. Once the entire east-west main is converted to CTC this may change. I noticed out in western Iowa where they put the second track back in, the little signs with the bridge and culvert mileposts where only put on for one direction on both tracks (even though it is CTC) and they were put for right hand operation.
Before ATC and cab signals, the CNW had signal bridges with the signal over the track they governed (slightly off-set). Where there were absolute signals and the approach signal to the absolute, they were on the field side.
Jeff

[Anonymous]

Just a thought, but maybe it had nothing to do with the engineer, but with the fireman- most people are right handed, and the fireman would normally be stoking from his right side, forcing the engineer further to the right side of the cab. Stand up and imagine your stoking from your left and right- where would you have to stand to feed a fire box thats in the center? As I said, just a thought.

[daveklepper]

The driver of USA and European autos sits on the left and in Britain on the right because it is supposed to be safer, because one can better judge the space between one car and oncoming uposing traffic, since most roads do not have center dividers. Similarly as a youngster I was taught always to hike on rural roads on the left side so that I would see oncoming traffic. Similarly, some of the earliest railroads, the New York and Harlem and the Baltimore and Ohio, effectively provided streetcar service for the urban portion of their first operations, they ran right-handed like general traffic, the boarding and alighting was always on the right, as with most horsescar, streetcar, and then bus operations, and the locomotive engineer could best watch people boarding and alighting and the conductor on the same side, by sitting on the right side of the engine's cab. Interestingly, there are some rapid transit systems that locate the "operator" on the left, specifically becauses most of the stations on these particular systems use island platforms instead of side platforms. These are new systems, and usually lack wayside signals, using a combination of automatic operation and cab signalling in various ways. Buses, of course, follow automobile practice in general, and this is sometimes carried onto light rail cars, especially to give boarding passengers more room.

Did the Chicago and Northwestern ever have left hand controls?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Daniel: The story that Roman chariots had something to do with standard gauge is urban legend.

Many ancient Roman roads are grooved leading some to believe they were worn that way. And at something like todays standard gauge.
Although Roman wagon wheels had iron bands this alone did not groove the pavement. Roman roads were well constructed and can be found in use today. Because the front axle on wagons was not articulated they were difficult to maneuver around curves and corners. So Roman road builders grooved the pavement on dangerous mountain lanes and at intersections in cities to help guide them. The two grooves were 4' 9 1/2" apart. Most of the wagon traffic was military or for hauling building materials. Their wagons were designed to operate with this system of gooves Animal drawn wagons remained in use for 2000 more years. And wagons are still in use today on farms and on 18 wheelers.
Early railroads were nothing more than animal drawn wagons operating on strap iron rails. The gauge was what ever fit the particular wagon in use. Many gauges were in use. But most of them were in the five foot range. We can thank the British for standard gauge. They decided to standardize the gauges in 1845 (Gauge Act) at 4' 8 1/2".

[CSXrules4eva]

This question of why do the engineers sit on the left side in Europe always puzzeled me. I still don't understand why they just didn't put the controls on the right like we do. Mabe it's personal prefference. Than again why do we have the engineer's controls on the right, why not the left like our automobiles except for mail trucks??? Mabe when the car was invented the auto manufactures didn't want to copy off of the railroads' style.

[techguy57]

As bearclaw had said Metra and Up do in fact run left-handed on the ex-CNW lines as was done when they were run by CNW. Look at the UP lines on the Rochelle web cam and you can see it firsthand.

Mike

[jjlamkin]

Another interesting fact is that North American motor cars (putt-putts) almost always have the operator seated on the left side. Just my 2 cents worth!!

Jim

[Anonymous]

On all three ex-C&NW lines, the METRA commuter trains do indeed run left-handed. METRA does NOT OWN these lines. The UP does. The UP provides the commuter service under a contract with METRA. The engineers and conductors on METRA's UP-North, Northwest, & West lines are actually UP employees.

[daveklepper]

I did not say the USA railroads run right handed because of where the signals are. I meant to say that with right-hand running in place, which has been historically the USA practice except for the Chicago and Northwestern, it then makes sense to put signals on the right and since the signals are on the right, so is the engineer. OK?

Anyone know the answers as how the ex-C&NW main line is run today by the UP? Still left hand on double track? Did the C&NW have left side signals and left controls on any locos?

[tree68]

I think the definitive answer is "Yes."

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

You must be kidding. You all know the answer. Location of signals. Most signal masts are on the right side of the tracks because the trains run right handed and that way a dark signal is not confused as a signal for the opposite direction.

Isn't that a bit of circle reasoning? Trains operate on the right because all the signals are set up on that way? Sounds like the answer to the question of why all barns are red- because red paint is cheap, and red paint is cheap because everyone paints their barns red![:D]

That's sorta why I made the comment I did;I haven't really seen
a definitve answer yet.[:D]

[Anonymous]

I read the other thread and the two reasons I'm going for are:
1. It's easier for the fireman to be on the left. It makes sense, and you'll notice that by the time all the British locomotives switched over to engineer-on-the-left, the mechanical stoker had been invented. Prior to that, British locomotives had been on both sides.
2. The papal directive that pilgrims should pass on the left/Napolean marching his armies on the right to confuse people. You'll notice that in Germany, where Napolean invaded, the engineer sits on the right, whereas this is not true in England, where Napolean did not invade. The reason French locomotives are driven on the left is that the British engineers brought the British custom.

Also, if anybody remembers your ancient history class, chariots would have to people riding: the driver and the guy shooting arrows. I'm wondering who was on which side, as it might have something to do with this. They did set the gauge, afterall [:)].

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

You must be kidding. You all know the answer. Location of signals. Most signal masts are on the right side of the tracks because the trains run right handed and that way a dark signal is not confused as a signal for the opposite direction.

Isn't that a bit of circle reasoning? Trains operate on the right because all the signals are set up on that way? Sounds like the answer to the question of why all barns are red- because red paint is cheap, and red paint is cheap because everyone paints their barns red![:D]

[daveklepper]

You must be kidding. You all know the answer. Location of signals. Most signal masts are on the right side of the tracks because the trains run right handed and that way a dark signal is not confused as a signal for the opposite direction.

Also, in commuter passenger service, island platforms are far rarer than right-hand platforms and the engineer can look back and observe the boarding and leaving passengers and the conductor's hand signal at the same time, with the conductor, usually at the rear car, also observing the completion of passenger boarding and exiting.

I'll bet that the Chicago and Northwestern did use left hand control diesels. Unless their signals were mostly on signal bridges and most stations center island platforms.
Or they should have for safety. Does Metra run any C&NW lines left-handed today? If I remember correctly, my last ride on a train to Glencoe, the switch had been made to right-hand operation.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by rkarn

Why most, if not all, of European locos have engineer control on the left as oppose to the right in the US??? Any good reason or history??

Karn

This conversation took place before you signed up, check it out.[:)]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13169

After going back and rereading the first thread,and in reading this
one;I have come to the conclusion(or was that confusion) that this
one is about as clear as mud.[%-)]

[TH&B]

I beleive the US engineers sit on the right because the train runs on the right in double track and when hooping up train orders you don't realy want the operater to stand between the double track or on the ajacent main track. This would be a very dangerous operation and therefore a good enough reason. The Europeans did not use the system of train control so they may have other reasoning.

[AntonioFP45]

Interesting.

Think about it, in the U.S our automobiles are driven from the left side and most of our trains from the right.

In most other countries, autos are driven from the right and trains from the left.

Just my 2 cents.

[mloik]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rkarn

Why most, if not all, of European locos have engineer control on the left as oppose to the right in the US??? Any good reason or history??

Karn

Does "Thomas The Tank Engine" count? If so, "Driver" (you know..the stagnant, wooden character) is always on the right side in my son's videos

Michael Loik

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rkarn

Why most, if not all, of European locos have engineer control on the left as oppose to the right in the US??? Any good reason or history??

Karn

This conversation took place before you signed up, check it out.[:)]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13169

[ajmiller]

It depends on if they're Republicans or Democrats.[:D]

[railman]

And the band played on...I have no idea, rkarn. I'll post to keep it up, somebody has to know. I would guess, this has roots as far back as jolly old England, and how they drive on the Left, We on the Right, but which came first? I don't know. But somebody does....

[Anonymous]

Why most, if not all, of European locos have engineer control on the left as oppose to the right in the US??? Any good reason or history??

Karn