How did MBTA end up owning most of its right of way from New Haven(Conrail) and Boston and Maine?

[Anonymous]

MBTA and Metro North actualy bought the right of way from Conrail and B&M.
How much did this cost them as opposed to leasing the right of ways and is it feasable anywere else?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

It's not only feasible, but it's not that uncommon. In many cases, it's a logical step from a purchase-of-service agreement when the suburban service provides most of the traffic on the line in question.

In the Chicago area, NICTD owns the South Shore Line from the Illinois-Indiana state line to South Bend and the freight carrier operates on trackage rights. The ownership of the trackage from Kensington to the state line is more involved and involves a lease and sublease. Metra owns the former IC electric lines, the Rock Island from LaSalle St to Joliet and possibly other lines. Some Metra operations are purchase-of-service agreements and the former Alton line to Joliet is operated with Metra crews by trackage rights over Illinois Central.

[jchnhtfd]

Related to CSS's comment, with particular attention to MBTA: there was very little freight traffic on much of the now MBTA track; second, B&M was (and is) notoriously unenthusiastic about having anything to do with passenger service, of any flavour; third, at the time, Conrail/NYNH&H would have sold anything that they could; fourth, neither one wanted to maintain the track to MBTA standards.
Further, MBTA, by owning the track, could gear operations and improvements to its commuter service (same principle as AMTRAK and the NEC).
So it all made sense (for once, in Beantown...)
Unfortunately, in the years since, MBTA for various reasons has allowed certain lines to be given up to other uses (see Rails to Trails and NIMBY in other posts!) and now sort of wishes it hadn't...

[Anonymous]

Yes great for passengers bad for freight..MBTA has yet to come up with any plan to make a few extraa bucks by have freight on third shift

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

MBTA and other transit agencies provide passenger service only. Many of the lines which are owned by the agencies have little freight traffic, which is often provided by the original freight operator in a trackage rights agreement. On Metra's Southwest Service (the former Wabash line to Decatur), NS runs a bi-weekly turn to Manhattan out of Calumet Yard and double-stack transfers of varying frequency run between Landers and the IHB at Chicago Ridge.

[jchnhtfd]

I'd have to look it up, but I seem to recall that MBTA's charter (Boston area) doesn't even allow it to offer freight service, even if it wanted to. I quite sure Metro-North's doesn't (New York).
In Beantown, the sad fact of the matter is that for various reasons, all political, the kinds of industry which would need freight service on a scale which would make it reasonable to have have been obliged to leave town. What little freight is left can be handled quite easily by CSX on the old Boston & Albany main.

[Anonymous]

No MBTA might not be able to offer freight service but it might be able to contrct with a third party to do so in the same way that Long Island Railroad does now with NY& Alantic

[Paul3]

Clevelandrocks wrote:

QUOTE: MBTA and Metro North actualy bought the right of way from Conrail and B&M.
How much did this cost them as opposed to leasing the right of ways and is it feasable anywere else?

Nope, that isn't exactly what happened. Allow me to quote from www.mbta.com:

A major highlight of this UMTA funding came on July 28, 1965 when the MBTA signed an historic document legally reserving for its present and future needs the entire New Haven Railroad's network of commuter rail lines and rights-of-way within the Authority's 78 communities. This paved the way for an ambitious Commuter Rail Directorate being established in July 1974.

So, the US Gov't paid for it with the UMTA (Urban Mass Transportation Administration) and USDOT funding.

Besides, the RR's didn't want to lease them to anybody, they wanted them off the tax rolls.

jchnhtfd wrote:

QUOTE: Unfortunately, in the years since, MBTA for various reasons has allowed certain lines to be given up to other uses (see Rails to Trails and NIMBY in other posts!) and now sort of wishes it hadn't...

Um, could you name one? I can't think of any, as every former NH line has service, is going back into service, or is still a usable but implausable RoW for commuter rail. I can't even think of any Rail Trails on former NH lines except for the old Old Colony line from Mansfield to Norton (and the whole branch was cut off in the 1950's).

QUOTE: Yes great for passengers bad for freight..MBTA has yet to come up with any plan to make a few extraa bucks by have freight on third shift

I have news for you... The MBTA would be much happier if all freight on their lines went away. Encourage it? Oh, no, they want it gone! They seem to feel that any ca***hey would get would be off-set by the problems it would cause them.

jchnhtfd wrote:

QUOTE: In Beantown, the sad fact of the matter is that for various reasons, all political, the kinds of industry which would need freight service on a scale which would make it reasonable to have have been obliged to leave town.

The problems were and are legion. Highly paid workers, cold winter climate (high heating bills), expensive transportation costs (heck, expensive everything), high taxes, etc. It's not all politcal. The reason why businesses started in New England 100 plus years ago was the abundant water supplies, the better transportation network, available electricity, skilled labor, etc. It left because all those things became available elsewhere (in the deep south, especially), but with cheaper labor, lower taxes & heating bills, etc. Politics, except for the taxes, didn't have much to do with it.

If you want to go for port business, New York City is a much bigger harbor than Boston, and is a day closer to the west coast for those who want the cheapest transportation by ship. Halifax is a day closer to Europe and therefore cashes in on the expedited shipments by train. Boston, stuck in the middle, doesn't stand much of a chance.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Unfortunately, in the years since, MBTA for various reasons has allowed certain lines to be given up to other uses (see Rails to Trails and NIMBY in other posts!) and now sort of wishes it hadn't...

The Minuteman trail from Alewife metro to Lexington to Bedford with off Road dirt trail to Concord...Is One such Corridor. Dont Forget that the B&M and Guilford were and are still Problems. Why Should MBTA do freight? Have you noticed that the Coal Tar pavement is thinner then many midwest citys and reducing truck traffic would save roads and reduce airpollution. If there is any freight that can be divetred to Boxcar and avoid being trucked to a transpoad and this includes intermodal this would be a good thing. Boston By the way is a big center for the printing industry and publishing of books. Bring the paper in by train is the way to go.

[jchnhtfd]

Another line which got abandoned to rails to trails is the line (forget the name!) which went through Watertown and Weston to Sudbury -- paralleling the Mass. Pike. Guess what... I think the lines that went that route tended to be B&M lines, rather than NYNH&H, for some reason.

Boston does have opportunities to enlarge its port. The old Fore River yard in Quincy comes to mind without much thought, and East Boston has a lot of potential. However, if you can't get there... why bother? There is another factor in the port traffic, though, which I didn't mention but which is important: the only two usable freight lines into Boston from the west are the old B&M Hoosac Tunnel route, and the B&A main line. Neither one is easy railroading: wicked grades (no, it's not the Rockies, guys, but a grade is a grade!), some very odd alignments which would be very hard to fix, and so on. And, as Paul noted, Halifax is a day closer by ship, and New York a day shorter by rail (though a day longer by ship), so there is a limited market there.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Single car shipments are no longer a viable transportation for short hauls since the truck is a lot cheaper. Transload facilities are an expensive option for short hauls since an extra step of handling is involved.