Queensland Diesel Tilt Train Derailed

[kenneo]

Just checked BBC webpage and found this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4015453.stm

update on derailment

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Is the tilt train any differnet than the HST in Britain?

There are no features in common between the British HST and the QR Diesel Tilt Train, except that they each have a power car at each end, and have both suffered serious accidents. They are about the same size, and look vaguely similar.

The Briti***rain is diesel electric with one Paxman engine of about 2000HP per power car, the QR train is diesel hydraulic and has two MTU engines of about 1900HP per power car.

In New South Wales, the XPT trains have power cars like the British HST trains, (but larger) but they have different stainless steel trailer cars. These trains run to Brisbane from the South, (on standard gauge) while the Tilt Trains operate North of Brisbane (on narrow gauge).

In my opinion, given the possibility that the British and QR derailments occurred at similar speed, the QR stainless steel cars stood up rather well in comparison.

Peter

[cherokee woman]

Thank the Lord no one was killed. Hopefully, the engineer with spinal injuries will make a
full recovery.

[Sterling1]

Is the tilt train any differnet than the HST in Britain?

[Kozzie]

To add to Peters comments - the actual QR track concerned with this accident, although only 3 feet 6 inches in gauge, is 60kg/m (120lb/yd) rail with concrete crossties.

From today's edition of "The Courier Mail" (Brisbane), one passenger reported that he had just looked at the train's passenger digital information panel which showed a speed of 157 kph (c. 98 mph) and suddenly he was thrown sideways across the car.

Looks like the tilt train came off the rails at high speed.

Today's "Courier Mail" devoted the whole front page to the accident:
Miracle at Rosedale - How did they survive?

Pretty much everyone down here is both relieved but still amazed that no-one was killed - although one of the engineers is in hospital with spinal injuries.

Dave

Dave

[M636C]

Sad to relate, I don't have a copy of my own article handy! Australian standard gauge passenger cars are about 13'6" high, 10' wide and 77' long. The Perth Suburban cars, which are very similar in size to the Brisbane cars, and the tilt train cars, are 12'8" high, 9'6" wide and 77' long. The Perth cars are from the same Maryborough, Queensland factory. So in round terms, narrow gauge cars are the same length, about 6" narrower and about one foot shorter in height. They also have a more curved side profile, reducing further the internal volume.

Australian main line rail is usually 60kg/m (=120lb/yd). Only the mining railways use 68kg/m(=136lb/yd). I can't comment on tie/sleeper spacing, but the ties are proportionally shorter, increasing subgrade loading for a given rail load.

The latest comments in the press suggest excessive speed as the derailment cause, since no equipment failures have yet been found.

One of the points that should be made is that the tilt mechanism is almost certainly not involved. The tilt is purely for passenger comfort and does not affect the operation of the trucks and suspension. The diesel power cars, one of which left the rails first, are not fitted with a tilting mechanism.

Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic

Sure the gauge isn't 3'6" (42") ? The Japanese use that gauge on everything-but-theBullet-Train.

There was mention of 130 lb rail. How do the rail weights, crosstie sizes, crosstie spacing compare on 3'6" gauge with 4'81/2" gauge? What is the loading gauge (i.e. how tall and how wide are the cars and locomotives)? Are trains more apt to tip over on this gauge?

Paul, Queensland's rail network within the State is 3 feet 6 inches, or 42 inches.
Yes the loading gauges are smaller here than that of the 4 feet 8 and a half. I don't know the exact measurements, Peter (M636C) hopefully will be able to help us out here. However, as an anecdotal guide at least to demonstrate the difference in loading gauges, the Brisbane suburban network EMU's have two seats on each side of the centre aisle, but in Sydney, the EMU's are 3 seats one side and two the other.

Dave

[Paul Milenkovic]

Sure the gauge isn't 3'6" (42") ? The Japanese use that gauge on everything-but-theBullet-Train.

There was mention of 130 lb rail. How do the rail weights, crosstie sizes, crosstie spacing compare on 3'6" gauge with 4'81/2" gauge? What is the loading gauge (i.e. how tall and how wide are the cars and locomotives)? Are trains more apt to tip over on this gauge?

[GMS-AU]

The CTT ( Cairns Tilt Train ) seems to have come from a 150 kph straight to a possible 60 kph bend. It has left the tracks so it is anybodies guess yet. A freight train had traveled the line about an hour before and the line had been inspected the day before so the track should have been OK. The CTT is one of two diesel powerd tilt train sets and these runs the coastal route from Brisbane to Cairns while the are also two electric tilt train sets which run from Brisbane to Rockhamton and have been runing reletively trouble free for a couple of years. These were built locally with technology from Japan and Europe at Maryborough. This same workshop is currently building GM based 3300 ac loco's for QR and new private rail firm Pacific-National. All this of course happens on 3'6" gauge rail. Hope this gives some background.

[M636C]

I've now seen the aerial photo and the Courier Mail photos show the leading power car.

There is still no explanation or cause quoted, so there is almost certainly no mechanical failure on the leading power car, since it is visibly still intact, and its running gear is clearly visible for inspection.

The passenger cars held up well, they may be stronger than the BR MkIII cars ( but the accident probably occured at a lower speed).

Peter

[M636C]

There are additional photos on the SMH website at

http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/2004/11/16/1100384532480.html

I think the fourth of these and the Courier Mail photos show the trailing power car.

Some of the SMH views look as though a pair of cars jacknifed, pulling the connecting diaphragm apart.

In the first SMH photo it looks like a catenary post was knocked down and is lying next to the passenger car. I'm still trying to work out how those cars got the other side of the catenary posts in the Courier Mail photos! Perhaps this is distortion due to a long telephoto lens.

The curve looks quite sharp, but this again might be telephoto distortion.

The view I thought was the power car interior proved to be a strange view of a sitting car!

On "black boxes" Sydney suburban and outer suburban trains have data recorders, as a result of the second Glenbrook accident. I think they are being fitted to all new passenger trains, but apart from Sydney I don't think older trains are being fitted.

In Sydney, there are problems as the drivers (engineers) are driving more cautiously with the event recorders working, and trains are running more slowly than the timetable, causing delays where crews change from one train to another at Sydney Central and other major stations. A strike is planned.


Peter

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

After seeing the photos and the video of that derailment;it is very amazing that there were no
fatalities. The reports mentioned a "black box". Are all the trains equiped with these,or is
it just for the "tilt train"?

Walt

Good question Walt - I'm not sure on that one.

Dave

[Modelcar]

....And after reading further in the paper I see the accident happened late at night so sun heat not involved....The farmer named in the article really got the ball rolling of rescue and alerting the emergency agencies...and really pitching in and making things happen...

[locomutt]

After seeing the photos and the video of that derailment;it is very amazing that there were no
fatalities. The reports mentioned a "black box". Are all the trains equiped with these,or is
it just for the "tilt train"?

Walt

[Modelcar]

....From the photo the track doesn't seem to have major damage but then as you say Dave, camera angles can fool.....and of course the damage would be behind where we can see on the track surface. This day and age they'll have it cleaned up pretty fast and track back in operation. The investigation part seems it would be on the power and cars that have cleared the track area...allowing them to redo the track surface {of course after they have taken a good look in seeking what may have caused the accident}......I suppose we're not talking about enough heat this time of your season to have rail kinks from the sun....

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Peter and Dave....Interesting reports on your tilt train accident. Looked at the photo in the paper and it shows it to be on what looks like a fairly sharp curve....for a speed of 90 plus mph. Looked like it was a rather forceful accident with the power and cars scattered....Glad to hear no fatilities.

Quentin, I and everyone else are with you about the lack of fatalities. I hope the engineers make it through. Sounds like at least one really copped it.

I think the angle of the photo may be a little tricky. Maybe, by the time the train had left the rails and come to rest, it had travelled farther enough down the straighter section to reach the beginning of the sharper curve.

This is the Main North Coast Line that sees a lot of freight trains running up and down the Queensland coast between Cairns in the far north and Brisbane down in the south east of the State. So freight and other passeneger services will be severely hampered.

Dave

[Modelcar]

Peter and Dave....Interesting reports on your tilt train accident. Looked at the photo in the paper and it shows it to be on what looks like a fairly sharp curve....for a speed of 90 plus mph. Looked like it was a rather forceful accident with the power and cars scattered....Glad to hear no fatilities.

[Kozzie]

For a photo of the crash scene, go to the following address, which is part of the web site for the daily newspaper here in Brisbane - www.couriermail.news.com.au then click on the word "report" to get the full photo.

Dave

[Kozzie]

I've just checked the QR website and they had:

At approximately 11.55pm last night, the north bound Cairns Tilt Train derailed about 50km north of Bundaberg (between Bajool and Berajondo).

There were 156 passengers on board, two drivers and five other staff. All people were cleared from the train by 3.40am.

There are 12 people with serious injuries and others with moderate injuries who have been transported to Bundaberg Hospital for treatment.

At this time it is not clear what caused the accident. QR CEO Bob Scheuber has asked the Australian Transport Safety Bureau to lead the investigation. QR is also cooperating and working closely with Police and Emergency Services. Our advice is that the track is in good condition and was inspected yesterday afternoon.

All passengers have been transported from the site and either taken to Bundaberg Hospital, Hervey Bay Hospital or Gladstone Hospital for examination and counselling, or have been assisted with alternative travel arrangements to continue their journey or return home.

At least there were no fatalities, but I heard from the radio that the two engineers are seriously injured.

Dave

[M636C]

After what seemed an interminable wait, the video ran (once) on my PC. It mainly showed variations of the derailed cars now included as the still photo in the SMH report. There was what appeared to be a view inside the (leaning) power car, but the MTU engines, which I recall as being painted standard dark blue, appeared to be painted cream! But no photos of the power car from outside to give any idea of its position or damage.

The line is electrified, and the power car may have hit a catenary support after derailing, but reports suggest that one of the drivers was seriously injured.

But the train appears to be on straight or gently curved track in a shallow cut, with other cars amongst trees on the outside of the curve, perhaps having slipped down a small embankment beyond the cut.

I don't believe the power cars tilt, and given that the driver was injured, I'd assume the power car left the track first, so I think we can rule out a tilt problem. Nothing useful has been said to date.

The power cars are very light (about 60 tonnes) for their power (about 3600 HP net). They have twin MTU 12V396 diesels and Voith hydraulic transmissions driving all four axles by cardan shafts.

This is pure speculation on my part but the passenger's report about the train "becoming airborne" could be the result of the leading drive shaft coming detatched at speed and strikng the track structure. I probably shouldn't say that, I'd expect that there are supports to prevent that happening.

A conventional problem, a broken rail or debris on the track is far more likely !

Peter

[Kozzie]

Peter - thanks for starting this one off with so much info.

In the local radio news here in Brisbane, the CEO of Queensland Railways was saying in an interview it's too early to tell what had happened. He did mention that it was a straight section of track, with concrete crossties and 60 kilogram (130 lb) rail, with a speed limit of 150 km per hour (about 93 mph) and that the condition of the track shouldn't be a factor.

I checked the web site for Queensland Rail but nothing had been posted. I'll try again and pass on anything that is reported there.

Dave

[Overmod]

There is a video report available at

http://media.smh.com.au/?category=&rid=15090&rate=25&sy=smh&source=int15090r&t=6JS64M&player=wm6&ie=1&flash=0

which I can't get to run on my Macintosh. Might add some details.

I don't like the sound of this. Peter, any word on whether this was related either to suspension or tilt-mechanism design?

[M636C]

Last night the QR Diesel Tilt Train derailed north of Bundaberg.

Here is a link to the story.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Over-100-injured-in-Queensland-train-crash/2004/11/16/1100384521470.html?oneclick=true

Dave and I had raised the risk to crews of this train in the Briti***rain Cra***hread. It does not appear to be the result of a crossing accident. One of the two drivers (engineers) was seriously injured.

All eight cars were derailed, and it appears the couplers parted. The train has Scharfenberg semi-permanent couplers which are interlocking steel couplers bolted together, so there must have been considerable force involved.

The only TV coverage so far was an end view of one of the intermediate cars leaning at more than thirty degrees. It was amongst trees beside the track.

Australian forum members can read my article about this train in the November "Railway Digest" magazine.

A photo of the train is at that magazine's website

http://www.arhsnsw.com.au/rdigest.htm

You should scroll down, the photo (not mine) is at the bottom left.

Peter