Sometimes a grade separation is not enough

[FRED GEMMILL]

I remember the Cherry Valley bridge in Garden City. When I was a kid I went to the school right next to the bridge and watched a too high truck try to get under it. About half the roof got peeled off the truck before it stuck. Lot of laffs over that.

 

[matthewsaggie]

SealBook27

   Any class D driver is legally permitted to drive a straight truck as long as its GVWR is no more than 26,000 lbs.  That means someone's grandmother could be driving a rental truck out there. 

 

   If the height is marked on the truck body, how do you know it is accurate?  With no load, the rear of the body probably will be slightly higher than the front.  I once knocked a overhead garage door off its track while a co-worker watched the front to check the clearance. 

 

   And how do you know the road wasn't repaved since they put up the clearance sign?  They are definitely not accurate.

 

Have you been to Durham? The signs are accurate and the roads not been repaved. 

[tree68]

A good many companies with their own fleets rent vehicles to make up for equipment shortages.  It's not all rank amateurs who don't know a box truck from a box of crackers.

[SealBook27]

   Any class D driver is legally permitted to drive a straight truck as long as its GVWR is no more than 26,000 lbs.  That means someone's grandmother could be driving a rental truck out there. 

 

   If the height is marked on the truck body, how do you know it is accurate?  With no load, the rear of the body probably will be slightly higher than the front.  I once knocked a overhead garage door off its track while a co-worker watched the front to check the clearance. 

 

   And how do you know the road wasn't repaved since they put up the clearance sign?  They are definitely not accurate.

[Semper Vaporo]

I have not rented all that many trucks, but those that I have had the box height clearly visible in the rear view mirrors... It was printed backward on the front corner of the box at a height such that it would be visible (and readable) in the mirrors.  And I still managed to whack a "guard shack" roof overhang because the shack itself was mislabeled as to its height by 3 inches.

 

[cacole]

In the videos I've seen of trucks hitting this bridge, most of them are rentals (Ryder, U-Haul, Penske, etc.)  The one time I rented a truck, there was no indication anywhere within the cab, and the rental agency never mentioned the height of the box body.

[matthewsaggie]

The 11 ft 8 bridge in Durham NC has a very heavy steel I- beam mounted about 8 ft ahead of the bridge. That is what the trucks are hitting, not the actual bridge. About 10 years ago I was returning to Charlotte on #79 when the bridge was hit. We were delayed 4+hours waiting on a NS bridge inspector to come check it. The I-beam was installed about 6 months later, paid for by NCDOT. 

As for warning signs there are about a dozen of them, on both sides of the street, on all the streets approaching the bridge, in addition to the flashing lights at the bridge. There is no excuse for the morons to hit it.

Finally, if you go to YouTube and search there a number of mash-up videos of the bridge better then the one above. Some are pretty funny in their own way.

[MICHAEL WALSH]

A bridge strike in Ireland about 30 years ago caused the bridge to shift.  A passenger train was derailed resulting in 5 deaths.  That 11 foot 8 bridge in the video is certainly well secured, but if there was a derailment, you would prefer not to be too close to the aftermath, judging by the speed of the freight train passing over it.

Michael J Walsh, Dublin, Ireland.

[BaltACD]

http://www.odometer.com/lifestyle/5837/bridge-meets-truck-23-not-so-glamorous-tales-of-unrequited-love#slide/0

[Deggesty]

mudchicken

 

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

 

 

Seems to have missed the other "mouseholes" on the same ex-CB&Q line at the Denver Western Stockyards (S-SW) and at Sand Creek Junction (60th Ave) (N-NE). Local jurisdiction that Outlaw is showing is a political mess. Plan & profile bad geometry plus a high water table makes for an expensive fix. At least the cemetery is close by , but old Riverside is full and good luck moving the graves.

 

(There is a section corner that falls in Riverside at the base of a headstone. The sight of surveyors running around in there, shovel in hand, looking for the aliquot corner - causes some raised eyebrows until they realize what surveyors are looking for.) MC, how often do surveyors visit the grave? Is there any way the marker can be raised so shovels will not be needed to find it? I presume it is not a geodetic survey marker.

CB&Q built a lot of these in the 1920's and 1930's.

 

[SealBook27]

Here's one that blew my mind years ago. I drove a straight truck northbound on McDade Blvd. thru the Philly suburbs on my way to a new customer. As I approached the intersection where I was to turn right, I saw a railroad overpass that came across at an odd angle. I wouldn't have to pass under it when I turned, but coming back out later I would have to pass under it as I made the left back onto McDade. But not to worry; the clearance sign read 12' 6" and I only need 12' even. Now when I returned, the sign for southbound traffic read 11' 6". SAY WHAT!!! How did I get that mixed up. I actually parked the truck and walked down the street just to make sure I really had seen two different clearances. Sure enough, there was a girder sticking down on the far end of the overpass that reduced the clearance by about a foot. The only thing I knew to do was to turn aound in the street and cut thru a residential street with "No Trucks" signs.

[BaltACD]

BroadwayLion

This bridge is monitored by a web cam 24/7. At 11 foot 8 it is taller than yours, but lots of interesting action shots. There *is* a guard beam ahead of the bridge installed by the railroad to prevent strikes on their infrastructure. There *are* detectors ahead of the bridge, and trucks must turn either right or left, or face the "can Opener".

Some choose the can opener.

ROAR

Same bridge I posted the video of earlier in the thread.

[BroadwayLion]

This bridge is monitored by a web cam 24/7. At 11 foot 8 it is taller than yours, but lots of interesting action shots. There *is* a guard beam ahead of the bridge installed by the railroad to prevent strikes on their infrastructure. There *are* detectors ahead of the bridge, and trucks must turn either right or left, or face the "can Opener".

Some choose the can opener.

ROAR

[mudchicken]

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

Seems to have missed the other "mouseholes" on the same ex-CB&Q line at the Denver Western Stockyards (S-SW) and at Sand Creek Junction (60th Ave) (N-NE). Local jurisdiction that Outlaw is showing is a political mess. Plan & profile bad geometry plus a high water table makes for an expensive fix. At least the cemetery is close by , but old Riverside is full and good luck moving the graves.

(There is a section corner that falls in Riverside at the base of a headstone. The sight of surveyors running around in there, shovel in hand, looking for the aliquot corner - causes some raised eyebrows until they realize what surveyors are looking for.)

CB&Q built a lot of these in the 1920's and 1930's.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved. https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w 

A modern precast 'lightweight' I-beam bridge, or even those with separate reinforced concrete box beams, - possibly.  That's what was involved in the Texas mishap the other day, and we've lost parts or all of a few here in Pennsylvania from time to time when they've been hit, usually a 'point' impact by heavy construction equipment on a lowbed trailer, such as the boom of a big tracked hydraulic excavator ("hoe"). 

But not that bridge.  It reminds me of a mini-version of Joh Koh's Clinton St. Viaduct - "still undefeated".  The exposed face is part of a thick solid concrete deck that runs about 30 ft. to the other side, and has a fairly short span, so it's almost like a giant cement block.  And it was built 'back in the day', when no one shorted on the amount of cement in the concrete (which slowly gains strength over time).  The curves limit the approach speed, so the trucks may chip at it, and even take out some bigger pieces, but they ain't never gonna knock it down.   

- Paul North. 

[Semper Vaporo]

Deggesty

 

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

 

 

 

The underpass is given black marks for not letting trucks go under it?

 

 

Click "through" the bridge and then turn around and look at the other end!!!  NO "Black Marks" at all!  It all comes off with the concrete! 

 

[Deggesty]

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

The underpass is given black marks for not letting trucks go under it?

[denveroutlaws06]

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

[Deggesty]

Back before I-15/I-80 conglomeration in the Salt Lake City area was rebuilt just before the WInter Olympics, the was a sign on NB I-15 south of the 3300 South exit, warning drivers whose load was too high to go under the 2700 South (access to Roper Yard) overpass to exit at 3300 South. I did not hear of anyone's ignoring the warning.

Now that the Spaghetti Bowl (look at a map of the area, which includes Utah 201 to/from the west and a collector just east of I-15/I-80) has been built, the clearance is much better.

There was an incident on I-15, going south, north of the city a few years back when a high load was caught by a structure.

[chutton01]

tree68

I've seen locations that have some sort of sensing system for overheight trucks which triggers flashing lights.  Probably uses lasers for the sensing

Oakland Gardens, Queens, NY. Long Island Expressway Eastbound to Cross Island Parkway Southbound. For decades there was no direct connection, and traffic going that way had to exit the LIE at 30 onto the service road (Horace Harding), futz around at the traffic lights at the intersection of Horace Harding and E. Hampton Blvd/Alley Rd (usually for multiple light cycles - I got sick and tired of seeing the brown hip roofs of the housing development at that intersection, and I'm sure the residents got tired of seeing this traffic), then head down a steep access ramp to the Cross Island.
Finally, after decades of this nonsense, around the turn of the century as part of a HOV and interchange improvement project the missing ramp was installed (why it wasn't done in the 1960s is unfathomable and unforgivable - no private land was taken for the ROW, and the construction materials were bog-standard rebar concrete and asphalt, not carbon fibre and aerogels. Considering the poorly laid out profile at the end of the ramp which goes down and then up for no good reason, I'm not convinced they even used lasers on this job).
Be that as it may, the ramp does now allow traffic a direct access route from the LIE east to the CIP south - and therein lies a problem, as it allows commercial trucks as well as cars/SUVs access to the parkway, and trucks are prohibited from using the parkway due to low bridge clearances (among other things). So NYSDOT installed large yellow "Low Clearance signs" on the ramps, with sensor activated flashing yellow lights.
After awhile, the lights began flashing all the time, not just when an oversized truck went down the ramp. Was it an electrical problem? Well, let's just say this is a temperate climate favorable for natural organic growth (IIRC this is one of the sensors in question).

OTOH, a few years back at several low LIRR bridges (e.g. Cherry Valley in Garden City), standard-format yellow clearence signs were installed that had solar powered flashing blue/white LEDS riming the sign edges. They do stand out pretty well, and I think they are quite useful, but I not sure how effective they are in reducing bridge collison incidents over the long term.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Then there was the tragedy in Texas yesterday where an apparently oversize load struck one of the concrete beams of a bridge under construction over I-35, knocked it down, and killed a passing driver.

- Paul North. 

[Redore]

Trooper "Hey, get your truck stuck under the bridge?"

 

Driver "No, I was delivering this bridge and I ran out of gas."

 

Bill Engvall

[Boyd]

Or just install a very long chain saw bar at the right height to cut the top off of anything too tall before it reaches the bridge. Imagine its your first time on this road with lots of traffic,,, lots of signs,,, and your view of signs is blocked by "other" box trucks and tall vehicles around you and I can see a person missing those crucial signs. Also remember some jurisdictions "like" to write tickets and the fix to the road or bridge would cut into their bottom line.

[MikeF90]

Norm48327

And there's this little gem in Battle Creek, MI that snags the unwary. Bridge hasn't moved yet. Picture didn't show in the post. It's upton Ave. Clearance is 10'6".

I see your bridge and raise, er lower mine at Tilton Ave (8'6") on the Caltrain ROW in San Mateo, CA. There are several of these obsolete structures nearby and, unfortunately, local governments have been napping for decades WRT replacing them. Now that Caltrain ridership is booming it is costing us a fortune to build grade separations and other mitigations.

[BaltACD]

Oversize truck hits bridge under construction over I-35

http://www.nbcdfw.com/traffic/stories/Bridge-Collapse-Reported-on-Interstate-35-in-Central-Texas-297675931.html

[tree68]

I've seen locations that have some sort of sensing system for overheight trucks which triggers flashing lights.  Probably uses lasers for the sensing.

The fact that the lights aren't on all of the time might prevent the complacency of drivers who regularly run the routes.

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Glad you enjoyed that one, Johnny - I just had to share it ! 

Perhaps IDOT should install a truck version of the old railroad "tell-tale" - a series of vertical ropes or light chains hanging from a crossbar above the track that would 'tickle' a brakeman on the car tops to warn him of an impending low clearance bridge or tunnel, etc.  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell-tale#Railroad - note the photo of one for trucks there, too !

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2006/05/tell-tales 

http://www.american-rails.com/tell-tales.html

In this instance, it would be a 'sacrificial' lightweight steel or wooden bar - kind of like a 'smashboard' at level railroad grade crossings - at the same height (or a wee bit lower) that would catch on the truck before the bridge, maybe break loose, and make all kinds of noise.  I've seen some in advance of old wooden covered bridges around here to prevent them from being damaged by too-tall trucks.  See:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Concord_Covered_Bridge.jpg 

- Paul North. 

 

That bar just before the Concord tunnel seems to be a bit close--unless the approaching vehicle is barely moving.

[ACY Tom]

Forget the "'sacrificial' lightweight steel or wooden bar".  I suggest cinder blocks.  Big ones.

Tom

 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Glad you enjoyed that one, Johnny - I just had to share it ! 

Perhaps IDOT should install a truck version of the old railroad "tell-tale" - a series of vertical ropes or light chains hanging from a crossbar above the track that would 'tickle' a brakeman on the car tops to warn him of an impending low clearance bridge or tunnel, etc.  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell-tale#Railroad - note the photo of one for trucks there, too !

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2006/05/tell-tales 

http://www.american-rails.com/tell-tales.html

In this instance, it would be a 'sacrificial' lightweight steel or wooden bar - kind of like a 'smashboard' at level railroad grade crossings - at the same height (or a wee bit lower) that would catch on the truck before the bridge, maybe break loose, and make all kinds of noise.  I've seen some in advance of old wooden covered bridges around here to prevent them from being damaged by too-tall trucks.  See:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Concord_Covered_Bridge.jpg 

- Paul North.