Moscow-Beijing HSR Update

[dakotafred]

Phoebe Vet

On the other hand, it's amazing how much money you can find for infrastructure when you don't pump massive amounts of money into fighting constant wars and maintaining hundreds of military bases all over the world.

The Soviet Union found that out the hard way.  We didn't seem to learn anything from their collapse.  Now Russia and China can build trains while we build aircraft carriers.  It's just a matter of priorities. 

 

If ordinary Soviets found it out -- and what is your evidence for that? -- the lesson seems to have been lost on Putin, who has taken Russia adventuring again. Yet you are ready to give Russia credit for "building trains" -- when it is in fact broke, getting broker and building not much of anything except another hole for itself.

[tomikawaTT]

Murphy Siding

 

Phoebe Vet

On the other hand, it's amazing how much money you can find for infrastructure when you don't pump massive amounts of money into fighting constant wars and maintaining hundreds of military bases all over the world.

The Soviet Union found that out the hard way.  We didn't seem to learn anything from their collapse.  Now Russia and China can build trains while we build aircraft carriers.  It's just a matter of priorities.  

 

 

  Things I've read suggest that Russia is broke.

Recent events seem to indicate that Gospodin Putin either mislaid the bookmark or never read the page.  He almost seems willing to try to tackle all of Western Europe.  If you talk the talk, you had better be ready to walk the walk.

Chuck [MSgt(Ret) USAF]

[Murphy Siding]

Phoebe Vet

On the other hand, it's amazing how much money you can find for infrastructure when you don't pump massive amounts of money into fighting constant wars and maintaining hundreds of military bases all over the world.

The Soviet Union found that out the hard way.  We didn't seem to learn anything from their collapse.  Now Russia and China can build trains while we build aircraft carriers.  It's just a matter of priorities. 

 

  Things I've read suggest that Russia is broke.

[BaltACD]

blue streak 1

One problem among many may be solved.  Here is a link that Russia has developed a rail that will be good to -60C ( -76F ) temperatures.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/head-hardened-rail-developed-for-siberian-temperatures.html

Do suspect that rail laid for these temperatures wwill need to be jointed and not welded ?

Wonder how well it will respond to the pounding from flat wheels at those temperatures?

[blue streak 1]

One problem among many may be solved.  Here is a link that Russia has developed a rail that will be good to -60C ( -76F ) temperatures.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/head-hardened-rail-developed-for-siberian-temperatures.html

Do suspect that rail laid for these temperatures wwill need to be jointed and not welded ?

[Phoebe Vet]

On the other hand, it's amazing how much money you can find for infrastructure when you don't pump massive amounts of money into fighting constant wars and maintaining hundreds of military bases all over the world.

The Soviet Union found that out the hard way.  We didn't seem to learn anything from their collapse.  Now Russia and China can build trains while we build aircraft carriers.  It's just a matter of priorities. 

[tomikawaTT]

Before anyone starts planning to ride this Dreamland Express, a few comments:

1. The late, unlamented Chancellor of Germany had grandiose plans for a three meter gauge super-rail system to unite Europe.  Not one millimeter of rail was ever laid...
2. Governments run by demagogues can make plans, and even sign contracts.  What happens when the political wind shifts?
3. Let these () make plans to pour megabillions down a rathole.  We can use the time and money to pre-empt any plans they might have for developing the industrialization of space and the colonization of other Sol-orbiting objects.
4. Without the political agreement of the US and Canada there won't be any link under the Bering Strait.  Now, how many years did it take the Brits to agree to building the Chunnel?

At best, the whole thing sounds like a really big dreambubble.  Beijing - Moscow, maybe.  Extension to the Western Hemisphere?  Holdeth not thy breath.

Chuck

[blue streak 1]

If  ( a big if ) this is built by the China there would be certainly be more traffic to Russia. That makes this route built first.  It may be in places during construction of track that if present Trans Siberian ROW is used a third rail could be installed temporary inside of its guage to start service sooner. ( if standard guage is used ) 

A big problem seen is the lack of electric power in the wilderness. Even the Tibet route uses diesel.

A bigger "if" is continuing on to Alaska.  Definitely China would want  Standard guage to interchange to US and Canada which may cause more  leaning toward standard guage to Moscow. Again Electric traction problematic.

Of course Spain has proven guage changing technology that they are exporting for eastern Europe guage change operations to Russia. 

   

[dakotafred]

Jim200

Now Russia will be able to say that they have the longest high speed rail in the world. China can say that they have the most high speed rail in the world. USA can say that with the one trillion dollars spent in the middle east, we could have had 18,000 miles of high speed rail built by the Chinese or about 5000 miles built the California way. The tunnel from Russia to Alaska is going to take six or twelve tunnel boring machines a long time to complete, but the Chinese have workers and machines to finish it. Probably, the easiest way to go is follow the Alcan highway, then through Alberta to eastern Montana or North Dakota and follow the coal or oil trains.

 

Wow, just like that!

 

If the Russians and Chinese decide they need more investors, they'll know just whose phone to ring.

[54light15]

I remember reading about a monorail through the centre of the Earth. Oh, wait, that was in National Lampoon. But it sounds just as practical as this three-quarters-around-the-world-railway and just as likely to be built by anyone.

[ndbprr]

In the meantime don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen

[gardendance]

Jim200, I believe you mean someday Russia might be able to say, not "Now Russia will be able to say"

I didnt' read up on the USA extension except in this thread. Are we certain they plan to have it go east from Beijing? I thought it was going to go west from Moscow :)

[Murphy Siding]

erikem

Now why does that last number seem so familiar??

 

    Also interesting to note that the proposed Utah line was a standard freight line.  The proposed Russia/China line is HSR.

     I wonder if big, public,  infrastructure projects in communist countries have the big cost over runs like in the rest of the world?

[Jim200]

Now Russia will be able to say that they have the longest high speed rail in the world. China can say that they have the most high speed rail in the world. USA can say that with the one trillion dollars spent in the middle east, we could have had 18,000 miles of high speed rail built by the Chinese or about 5000 miles built the California way. The tunnel from Russia to Alaska is going to take six or twelve tunnel boring machines a long time to complete, but the Chinese have workers and machines to finish it. Probably, the easiest way to go is follow the Alcan highway, then through Alberta to eastern Montana or North Dakota and follow the coal or oil trains.

[erikem]

Now why does that last number seem so familiar??

[Murphy Siding]

For what it's worth, 4340 miles @ $240 Billion works out to about $55 Million per mile

[Murphy Siding]

cacole

Track gauge is different between China (standard) and Russia (broad), so wheel sets (trucks) will have to be swapped between the two somewhere -- the same as crossing from Russia into Europe.

 

 If it's new HSR being built, they can go with any guage they feel works best I would think, andutilize the same gauge from end to end.

[cacole]

Track gauge is different between China (standard) and Russia (broad), so wheel sets (trucks) will have to be swapped between the two somewhere -- the same as crossing from Russia into Europe.

[blue streak 1]

One big question is will it be all standard guage or guage changing like the spanish equipment.

[Paul of Covington]

   Thanks, K.P.    I don't know why I couldn't find it, but my wife keeps telling me that I can look right at something and not see it.

[K. P. Harrier]

All the way to the US … Cool!

Before they start, they best check with U.S. regulators about safety laws, standards, etc.

That other thread is at:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/243245/2708617.aspx

[overall]

If it does finally reach the US, that would be a great trip just to ride it to Beijing and back. I am geussing it will terminate in Seattle Washington?

[Paul of Covington]

   We discussed this here a while back, but I couldn't find it.   Contract has been signed, and it looks like they plan to eventually extend it all the way to here.

http://english.cntv.cn/2015/01/22/VIDE1421916960466231.shtml