A few years the local government in Hesperia, California spent several million dollars to build a spur track to local industrial park that they had started up. The trackage was built to Class 1 standards with a concrete/asphalt liner and concrete ties. Unfortunately, the poor local economy has hampered development of the park and the track has never been put to use.
How long can piece of unused trackage remain in workable condition in a desert location?
With concrete ties in a desert location and constructed to Class I standards, possibly as long as 50 years or more.
FRA Track Class 1 or something else? (statement is a little fuzzy)
Track will last quite a while, but will be a function of what happens to the DRAINAGE and what the adjoiners do to it. (That country is subject to flash flooding and herky-jerky local development. Concrete ties are a bit of overkill.)
(Cushenberry Lead IIRC - Pfizer Minerals and a Mitsubishi Cement Plant up there and not much else)
Economic development agency/ government money is often spent on new track leads on the theory of "Build it and they will come". I know of several here on the east coast that went as long as 20 years (mid-1990's and later) until they finally attracted an industry that would be a shipper - though by then, in this wetter climate most of the wood ties, switch timbers, and asphalt grade crossings, etc. needed replacement/ rebuilding.
There are also more than a few abandoned or out-of-service mainline and industrial sidings that after sitting a similar length of time, were reactivated after similar work was performed.
- Paul North.
Is this the spur into the former George Air Force Base?
rdamon (1-21):
No, the spur to the old George Air Force Base is in Victorville, the next town north of Hesperia.
I aerial checked the BNSF mainline in Hesperia, and the only thing that fits the description in the original post is off (upper right) the Lucerne Valley Subdivision (the line to Cushenbury), as linked below:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hesperia,+CA/@34.4317708,-117.2887494,1584m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c35d0ec347107f:0x703e35af9583a20
It is an exotic piece of trackage, with a LEFT handed switch on each end.
As far as that old George Air Force Base line, it is pretty much obliterated now, with a flood channel on or by part of it, as below.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5679398,-117.3181168,791m/data=!3m1!1e3
Apparently the Hesperia officials had more confidence in railroads than the Southern California Logistics Airport (the old George property) did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K.P.
That is all I could think of when he said Hesperia. Spent some time there in the early 90's and always enjoyed the local run out to the plant. The crews were alws nice to us foamers.
The latest pictures are from 2012 and do not show concrete ties.
https://goo.gl/maps/BqETP
I wonder if this could be off the Palmdale Cutoff. The only thing that I see there is the spur to the substation.
Robert
Found this article ..
http://www.hesperiastar.com/article/20070616/NEWS/306169994/0/SEARCH
Looks like this may be along the existing BNSF track between Main St. and Bear Valley Road.
rdamon (1-21A/B):
Your linked picture was on the ‘Lucerne Valley Subdivision’ which has wooden ties. If you look real good (and blow it up a bit), in the background of that picture a switch is seen, and THAT is the beginning of the track this thread is about, that track that is on the upper right of my first link in my post above.
Your reference to the SWITCH (to a utility spur) off the UP Palmdale Cutoff is no more, it being removed a year or two ago.
Ah, so 20-25 years ago you romped around a bit in Hesperia, probably when the air was cleaner. You missed back then Ranchero Rd. now going under the BNSF Transcon, as well as the excitement of the I-15 Ranchero Road overpass construction burning down! A few days ago I drove under it, and it looks ready to open.
Hesperia continues on!
Take care,
PS: Yes, the post you also made just above, the by “I” Avenue was a 2008 reference to that industrial track we are posting about.
I see it now ... Found this as well http://www.cityofhesperia.us/index.aspx?NID=379
Actually, from what I have heard, the city of Victorville started construction on a new spur to the Southern California Logistics Airport but ran out of funds. Both grading and construction of a concrete apron were completed before funds ran out.
Wow ... this is some serious trackwork ..
https://goo.gl/maps/OAD50
Unless the locals start picking the parts for scrap, this should be here for awhile.
rdamon and all (1-22):
Curiosity killed the cat, they say. I played cat, and survived. Went all around the Hesperia spur, and got a bunch of photos. In a few days I will post a small sectioned of those photos.
Seeing the photos, you may come to the same conclusion as I did, that the spur is kind of a ‘Twilight Zone’ type situation ...
OK, I'm a bit baffled here, even though there are a lot of Google maps links in this thread.Viewing Google Satellite, there seems to be nothing along the line between G and I ave except a self storage facility. Heck, G Avenue itself seems to be a dirt road. West of E Avenue, there's a siding north of the line with what seems to be an extraneous 'S' curve in the middle, and which is on the property of a 84 Lumber, the sheds of which the Google Street view show as empty...OK, moving the view around Hercules St., the 84 Lumber is closed, and the property is for sale, because American business managers nowadays are greedy, incompetent idiots. That's why the sheds are empty.Satellite view of the siding in question.So...is that the siding? Was it there to service 84 Lumber? Where is this 'I Avenue' industrial area mentioned in the article? I scrolled both a bit North and South on the map, didn't see much of anything but empty land in the area. What's the deal here?
The google images are too old to show this. I found this one street view that shows a crossing.
https://goo.gl/maps/OAD50 You can tell by the sign on the box that the city owns this.
Thanks KP ... for checking out the "City of Progress" for us.
K. P. Harrier [snipped - PDN] . . . Curiosity killed the cat, they say. I played cat, and survived. . . .
(See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_killed_the_cat and
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/curiosity-killed-the-cat.html , last para.)
I'd say that K.P.'s results and his post above validate it, too !
chutton01 (1-22):
That aerial you linked is a complex between Avenue C and Avenue E. The trackage in question is between Avenue E and Avenue I.
For Everyone:
At this point in the posting preparation for that spur, the series will have over 20 photos, which probably is a bit of overkill, but the presentation will show what is there and will probably leave most baffled because of the illogicalness of it.
Best,
The Spur of Mystery -- A Photo Shoot
Hesperia, CA
Thursday, January 22, 2015
Part I (of I-IV)
In advance of the spur … the long time branch, the Lucerne Valley Sub, from Avenue E, looking eastwardly:
Photo center, the Lucerne Valley Sub goes over a stylish, multi-arch concrete bridge, while the industrial track in question curves away on the photo bottom.
Just above, note the high up track, and the drainage pathway on the bottom.
From the west side of east-west Hercules Street, the south, first switch:
The siding from Hercules Street, looking north:
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-IV)
A concrete lined wash is by the spur track (upper right), which is curving away from the Lucerne Valley Sub.
The wash … On photo top, the dirt Hercules Street is where we were a bit ago.
Looking northward, the wash would have to be bridged to serve customers on the east side (right).
Just above, note the grade crossing in the background, photo middle.
At that Mojave Street grade crossing:
From Mojave Street, looking west, a BNSF westbound (leftward) heads up to Cajon Pass.
Looking south, a left handed switch is seen in the background.
A wider southward view:
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-IV)
Looking north, ANOTHER left hand switch in the background:
Just above, notice how the track elevates upward towards the end of the track.
Looking north, that wash continues northward.
The wash, looking south:
On the west side of the grade crossing is another wash area. View looks northward. Hardly an area for an industrial park!
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-IV)
The west side, looking south:
The concrete tied industrial tracks have concrete ties except through the grade crossing.
Now we go up to Lemon Ave., on the north end of the mystery trackage, looking south:
Above, a pile of dirt acts as a bumper post.
More southward views (heavy telephotos):
So, there we have it. You, the viewer, can now decide how mysterious the mysterious track is …
Second Section
In sight of the Lucerne Valley Sub switch for that spur of mystery, is a huge pile of old ties (upper right).
Whoever owns that trackage now (BNSF still?) is obviously maintaining it, and replacing ties as needed.
K. P. Harrier The Spur of Mystery -- A Photo Shoot Hesperia, CA Thursday, January 22, 2015 Part I (of I-IV) In advance of the spur … the long time branch, the Lucerne Valley Sub, from Avenue E, looking eastwardly: Photo center, the Lucerne Valley Sub goes over a stylish, multi-arch concrete bridge, while the industrial track in question curves away on the photo bottom. Just above, note the high up track, and the drainage pathway on the bottom. From the west side of east-west Hercules Street, the south, first switch: The siding from Hercules Street, looking north: Continued in Part II
Johnny
Well, I can't argue with that - that heavy duty double track siding clearly does exist awaiting business, regardless of what Bing and Google say.Perhaps they should have tried to get a business to use the former 84 Lumber site first, with an existing siding and a large number of open sheds in good condition...
JoeBlowHow long can piece of unused trackage remain in workable condition in a desert location?
I think it will last until about 18 months after the 5 figure switch maintenance fee first goes unpaid.
Thanks again, K.P. ! Once again, a great series of photos with informed comments illustrating the area and the details. Good catch on the 2 left-hand turnouts for that run-around track (doubt if there'll ever be enough traffic on this line to use it as a passing siding . . . ).
This track appears to be generally on or parallel to the platted location of G Avenue. Here are the Lat./ Long. coords. per ACME Mapper 2.1 - http://mapper.acme.com/ - which also shows this line in the "Satellite" (aerial photo) view:
Turnout from Lucerne Valley Sub: N 34 25.752' W 117 17.318'
Hercules St. (dirt road) grade crossing and 1st left-hand turnout: N 34 25.838' W 117 17.119'
Mojave St. grade crossing: N 34 26.069' W 117 17.071'
2nd left-hand turnout, just north of Mauna Loa St. and just south of the end of track, which is just south of Lemon St.: N 34 26.349' W 117 17.013'
The varying grades in K.P.'s photos - i.e., the last photo of Part I, the first photo of Part III, and the last photo of Part IV - are not too exaggerated (even allowing for the telephoto effect). The elevations range from about 3130 at the beginning to about 3080 at the end. For a track that's just under a mile long, that's an average grade of about 1% - likely more in places - which is pretty steep for storing cars without chocks or a lot of handbrakes being applied, etc.
P.S. - God, how I dislike this software, esp. how it moves the cursor to the beginning of the post everytime I change to/ from bold, italics, underline, insert an emoticon, etc. If I wanted to go there, I'd do it myself !!!!!
K.P., I don't know how you have the patience to work through all that nonsense for your most excellent posts and photos. Thanks again ! - PDN.
Paul_D_North_JrThis track appears to be generally on or parallel to the platted location of G Avenue. Here are the Lat./ Long. coords. per ACME Mapper 2.1 - http://mapper.acme.com/ - which also shows this line in the "Satellite" (aerial photo) view:
Reply Memo to Paul D. North Jr. (1-25 / 1-28):
My awareness of what was beyond “curiosity killed the cat” was lacking, so thanks to your wife we all learned something on that one! Please tell your wife thanks …
Thanks also to you for your nice comments about my posts. My seeming great patience comes from a nightly ambulance ride to the ER and being worked over by a shrink! Seriously, the only thing that halfway works is to compose things in WORD (that has a spell checker), then copy and paste it to a simple ‘Text Document,’ i.e., just a plain Jane, no frills display composition. From THAT I transfer the text to the TRAINS Magazine composition screen. Cumbersome, but at least it halfway works … That was ‘halfway works.’
Even with a Text Document, some functions AT the forum are incompatible with other functions, so I have had to resort to posting ‘Appendix’ posts, as seen in the ‘Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates’ thread of this date, currently at Page 204.
Anyway, it is hoped you and the Mrs. are enjoying better weather than here in the Cajon Pass area of Southern California, which normally is pretty nice.
Take care, Paul,
Google Street view from April 2019
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