D.Carleton awalker1829 Some cabooses had them for the same purpose. True story: Earlier this year I was moving a non-servicable sleeping car west. In one yard a mechanic saw the spicer drive and generator and asked if they could have to rig to their caboose. "Sorry. It's not mine to give away."
awalker1829 Some cabooses had them for the same purpose.
Some cabooses had them for the same purpose.
True story: Earlier this year I was moving a non-servicable sleeping car west. In one yard a mechanic saw the spicer drive and generator and asked if they could have to rig to their caboose. "Sorry. It's not mine to give away."
All of our Spicer drives are long gone, but the generators are mostly there. They are quite heavy and our folks didn't want to unbalance the suspension by simply removing them...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
D.Carleton Dragoman What's a "spicer drive? If it is why I think it is, why would there be one on a non-powered car? Thanks in advance. Spicer drives were axle driven gearboxes attached to generators used to charge the battery banks in the days before Head End Power.
Dragoman What's a "spicer drive? If it is why I think it is, why would there be one on a non-powered car? Thanks in advance.
Spicer drives were axle driven gearboxes attached to generators used to charge the battery banks in the days before Head End Power.
Ah, thank you.
I remember seeing/experiencing those on Southern Pacific commute "subs" (suburban cars, sometimes incorrectly referred to as "Harrimans"), before the gallery cars took over the San Francisco - San Jose commuter runs. In the evening hours, you would see the lights dim at every station stop!
DragomanWhat's a "spicer drive? If it is why I think it is, why would there be one on a non-powered car? Thanks in advance.
With apologizes to Samuel Clemons, the demise of the PV has been greatly exaggerated. It is true that NRPC has tightened the requirements for the private car. More and more PVs are being brought into alignment with the requirements of 49CFR238. Amtrak is also pressing their own requirements: all wheels and axles now need to be ultrasonic tested prior to installation (and inspected at some interval I forget), as of the 1st of this year a 32-pin communication trainline is mandatory (and a 32-pin multiple unit trainline is recommended but not yet required), spicer drives will no longer be allowed at the end of next year, trucks have to pass a 40 year UT inspection. After all this, and more, the car is still limited to 110 mph. This will present a problem (on the NEC) when the last of the Viewliner 1 sleepers are rebuilt and cleared for 125 mph. Of course this will coincide with the second coming of Elvis so we have a ways to go yet.
As a side note to what Paul North was commenting on.
The New Orleans Public Be\lt Railway, Had or has three Pullman Built Cars that are maybe still available for leasing. One is not finished but two are. They were projects of a former general manager who was convicted of some financial crimes while GM of the RR. The artilcle lists a cost of the cars and what they charged one company to move it across town for a Private event. See link @ http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/09/request_for_firms_to_lease_vin.html
Paul_D_North_Jr M636C [snipped - PDN] . . . His answer: "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it...." Private cars fall into that category. M636C My thought exactly, after reading BaltACD's post above. - Paul North.
M636C [snipped - PDN] . . . His answer: "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it...." Private cars fall into that category. M636C
Private cars fall into that category.
M636C
My thought exactly, after reading BaltACD's post above.
- Paul North.
M636CSomeone asked him how much it cost to own and operate an ocean racing yacht. His answer: "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it...."
I believe you'll find that if he said that, he cribbed it from Mr. Morgan and his Corsair -- just as Winnie Churchill would have cribbed that repartee with Lady Astor about 'in the morning I shall be sober' from Mae West (IIRC) and W.C.Fields...
M636C I am reminded of a quote attributed to Sir Thomas Lipton during the period he was competing for the America's Cup. Someone asked him how much it cost to own and operate an ocean racing yacht. His answer: "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it...." Private cars fall into that category. M636C
I am reminded of a quote attributed to Sir Thomas Lipton during the period he was competing for the America's Cup.
Someone asked him how much it cost to own and operate an ocean racing yacht.
His answer: "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it...."
Johnny
Private Cars are 'big boy toys'. With a big boy price to own from existing 'heritage' cars and a even bigger boy price to build a new one (think somewhere between $2 & $4 Million + extras as desired). Maintaining and operating costs require deep pockets. I am probably mistaken - but last I heard, to run a private car was 22 First Class fares, between the car's origin and destination - no matter if the car is moving empty. I suspect the private car owner would also be on the hook for switching charges for adding and removing the car from trains as well has arranging for track space to hold the car at the destination end of the trip and having their own track for the car to call it's home.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Based on what Colorado Railcar was getting (AFAIK), you can figure upwards of $2M for your car.
Amtrak regularly hauls private cars around now, for a price, and subject to restrictions I'm not aware of, as I haven't researched either factor. I do know that your car has to be pre-approved before they'll even consider talking to you about putting it on a train.
And it has to be added/removed at certain points as well. We'd love to be able to take private cars up our line, but the only way to do so at present would be to have CSX haul them to us as freight from Schenectady, or some similar point. It's not just a matter of dropping or picking up a car in Utica.
Some congressmen favor the idea of competition to Amtrak, like Iowa Pacific's heritage cars added onto the City of New Orleans. I think they would veto any ATK attempt to ban them.
Lots of obstacles (no surprise there, right ?), some of which are:
Technical: Will they even allow an extra car to be added, which might interfere with the power-to-weight parameters and meeting the performance specifications, as well as overburdening the Head-End Power set-up ?
Contractual: OK, in a rational world you might be able to get the builder to piggy-back a few cars of the same design onto an Amtrak or state agency order, or by a separate contract right after that one so as to take advantage of the production line, jigs, trained workers, etc., already set up and running, but: Who owns the rights to the design drawings for the new equipment ? And would you be able to copy or use them without paying a license fee or royalty - which might be big $ ?
Financial: Just the shell might be $1/2 a million a copy (Wild A-- Guess), because I doubt that a major carbuilder is going to want to touch custom work for a handful of cars or a variation just for you. So add on the cost of finding a custom shop to do that.
Social: You think an egalitarian public agency with a lot of 'populists' in charge is going to do anything at all to help you buy or run such an "exclusive" car on "the people's trains" ? (at least not until they have one of their own, too) There's no history of such cars having an important or positive contribution to most segments of society - might even be viewed as "tools or toys of capitalist oppressors" - so don't expect any support.
I hate to be so negative, but that's how I see it. We've been lucky to keep and run as many of the PVs as have been, so's it is.
So as an armchair would be PV owner I am hearing more of the impending fading of the Heritage cars from many Amtrak routes. The end of the PV area and banishment of many old PVs tracing their vintage from the beginning of the last century forward is a cause for concern. Will I never be able to hang up my Engineer's gloves and trade up to a PV traveling the country with a P.O. Box for my Railroad Retirement checks?
PVs are expensive. Many cost well into six figures or even more and represent past forms of the passenger car builders art. So, not relying upon the Lottery I began a savings an investment plan designed to allow me to purchase a PV and set it up as a side business before retirement. Unfortunately, Amtrak routes particularly those controlled by States like California, Oregon and others are building new equipment for "Higher" Speed Rail are being denied to PVs by new equipment not compatible with Heritage equipment including most existing PVs.
So, here is my question. What is the feasibility of constructing new cars as a new generation of PVs either individually or in connection with orders of Higher Speed equipment and what would the cost be of a new PV of this sort?
I await your response.
8 N' Sand
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