Smokebox paint on steam locos

[egmurphy]

I can understand that the smokebox on steam locos required a high-heat resistant paint, while the insulated jacket didn't. But was there any special reason why some railroads chose to paint the smokeboxes either a graphite gray or aluminum/silver? And didn't the SP have some white smokebox fronts?

Did this have anything to do with the formulation of the paint or was it just a paint scheme issue?

Thanks

Ed

[Overmod]

You deserved an answer on this one.

As far as I know, the use of graphite (often not a paint per se) or aluminum paint is as much an esthetic choice as a practical one, GIVEN that high temperature coatings are appropriate there. IIRC, some of the graphite coating methods, in particular, would not blister or peel as high-temp paint might if applied incorrectly or over a badly-prepared (e.g. dirty, rusted, oily) surface, and could be 'touched up' by wiping rather than careful brush or spray recoating -- this would make them preferable to using a 'drying' or 'curing' paint that formed a membrane to keep the elements away from the smokebox metal.

My understanding was that the 'white face' was for esthetics. I'd be interested for someone to tell what the composition of the paint used for this might have been.

[martin.knoepfel]

AFAIK, the white or grey paint was also to increase visibility

for the same reason, the British Railways (before privatization, in the 60s oder 70s) chose to paint their diesel engines' fronts yellow.

[Anonymous]

CB&Q 5632 was painted gold for the bicentenial. The boiler is matte gold and the smokebox is shiny gold. Other pictures show 5632's smoke box in different shades from dark gray to light silver but never the same paint as the boiler.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Martin: By sheer coincidence the very first mention I ever read in print of aluminum or graphite smokebox fronts being there to increase visibility I read last night -- but the source wasn't one I'd regard as authoritative. Perhaps a steam expert can tell us why that concept has not appeared until now in the one gazillion pages of railroading literature I've read to date. I'm not saying it's incorrect, just that I want some primary source data for confirmation. My understanding is that it was purely decorative, and its roots date to the pre-1880 era when locomotives were works of art. After all, if it's grade -crossing visibility that's required, a lit headlight would help much more, and that wasn't required in daytime until (Old Timer or Overmod fills in date in 1950s here).

I'm pretty much with Mark on this one. Over the years that I have even known
anything about steam locomotives,I've always been under the impression
that the"graphite"was for decoration. That the engineer,or the shopman just
wanted his 'loco' to look good.

[egmurphy]

Thanks for the responses, guys. After a couple of days this post had dropped so far back that I was figuring it was a goner.

I appreciate it.



Ed

[UPTRAIN]

I remember on Mount Rainier's Geared Locomotives by Pentrex that they took a rag with actual graphite on it and rubbed it on the smokebox to prevent rusting and deterioration.

[Anonymous]

Some railroads sheathed the smokeboxes and firebox sides just like they did the boilers. On many railroads - N&W was an example - these surfaces were painted black just like the boilers (assuming no fancy paint scheme).

But if smokeboxes and firebox sides were not sheathed, you couldn't paint them because the paint would burn off - it was as simple as that.

Hence, a graphite mixture was applied. This could vary in color; some mixtures were almost black, others were very light gray.

I don't think the light shades were done for visibility reasons. But I'd really like to find out what Espee's formula was - was it an aluminum paint they used to get that white look?

As I recall, headlights started to be used for visibility in daylight hours around 1955 or 1956. I remember on a photographic trip, a tower operator asked me if the headlight would bother the photo. I didn't tell him that the headlight wouldn't bother it nearly as much as me being a poor photographer would . . .

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

I always thought that it was a mixture of graphite and grease.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by garyaiki



CB&Q 5632 was painted gold for the bicentenial. The boiler is matte gold and the smokebox is shiny gold. Other pictures show 5632's smoke box in different shades from dark gray to light silver but never the same paint as the boiler.

I have never seen anything like this except on a model railroad. [:0]

[CANADIANPACIFIC2816]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by garyaiki



CB&Q 5632 was painted gold for the bicentenial. The boiler is matte gold and the smokebox is shiny gold. Other pictures show 5632's smoke box in different shades from dark gray to light silver but never the same paint as the boiler.

I have never seen anything like this except on a model railroad. [:0]

I have a color post card of this very same CB&Q engine in the gold paint, which I purchased through an e-bay auction. It's an awful shame that #5632 ended up going to the scrapper's torch over a dispute involving her costs of storage![*^_^*]

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jruppert

I always thought that it was a mixture of graphite and grease.

A reputable source told me that typically a mixture of graphite and linseed oil would be applied weekly by the engine terminal wipers (back in the days when railway crews took pride in the appearance of their steam locomotives).
[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CANADIANPACIFIC2816

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by garyaiki



CB&Q 5632 was painted gold for the bicentenial. The boiler is matte gold and the smokebox is shiny gold. Other pictures show 5632's smoke box in different shades from dark gray to light silver but never the same paint as the boiler.

I have never seen anything like this except on a model railroad. [:0]

I have a color post card of this very same CB&Q engine in the gold paint, which I purchased through an e-bay auction. It's an awful shame that #5632 ended up going to the scrapper's torch over a dispute involving her costs of storage![*^_^*]

I remember seeing an article somewhere about that. Well I guess it was the same engine. It seems like it was about 2 or 3 years ago (maybe more, you know how time flies). If I remember correctly, where ever it was stored wanted it moved or needed the storage fee. I can not believe that a judge would order it scrapped. It is a tragedy to lose any steam engine as these are a part of our past that would be extremely difficult to replace.

[:(!] [V] [:(] [V] [:(!]

[jimrice4449]

The SP smokebox fronts (post-WWII) were silver for grade crossing visibility. The graphite and oil mix was for a heat resistant protective coating. Some RRs( NYC, IC, PRR) used some kind of black paint (furnace paint?) that had a texture distinctly diferent than the jacketed part of the boiler, or possibly it was just the same paint after the heat got to work on it for a while. In addition to N&W jacketed smokeboxes were used by Milw, Santa Fe and probably others.

[Gunns]

Ours (the 2926) is black, but the AT&SF insulated the smokebox. The stated purpose was better fuel economy.
Gunns

[petitnj]

Linseed oil and powdered graphite make an excellent coating for the smoke box. The linseed oil is the basis for many paints so it is just like a paint. We mix graphite and linseed oil and paint it on usually every year for our little S-10 Northern Pacific 328. Graphite comes in a metal can and is like flakes or powder. It will slowly come off during the season, but with a little touch up (which the wipers did earlier) it looks fine. It has sort of a silvery sheen to it but looks mostly black.

Smoke box and cab roof specialist, Minnesota Transportation Museum. St.Paul, MN